To be sure this sort of thing, if unchecked, will kill our beloved game faster than anything Mr Rosewater could dream of.

'If you don't like it here, go else where' if I recall was a very common thing to say around here. guess people actually did it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Myy:
not a lot of "discussion" goes around here anymore.

'If you don't like it here, go else where' if I recall was a very common thing to say around here. guess people actually did it.

sorry to be off topic.

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No worries about going off topic, I rather concur. It doesn't help that when anyone attempts to discuss card speculation / future values certain members always bomb the thread with 'STFU, do your own homework, n00b.'

quote:

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Originally posted by keywacat:
No worries about going off topic, I rather concur. It doesn't help that when anyone attempts to discuss card speculation / future values certain members always bomb the thread with 'STFU, do your own homework, n00b.'

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quote:

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Originally posted by paragondave:
well, some of the inquiries ARE pretty lazy.

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I know it...I just refuse to admit it and keep coming here anyway.

quote:

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Originally posted by pugowar:
I agree. As much as I hate it, This place is dead anyway...

I know it...I just refuse to admit it and keep coming here anyway.

A smarter man would do what most have and abandon ship for greener pastures...(I know that's a mixed metaphor but not like anyone will read it anyway )

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quote:

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Originally posted by pugowar:
I agree. As much as I hate it, This place is dead anyway...

I know it...I just refuse to admit it and keep coming here anyway.

A smarter man would do what most have and abandon ship for greener pastures...(I know that's a mixed metaphor but not like anyone will read it anyway )

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quote:

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Originally posted by wayne:

Maybe one day, this place will be alive again. Or the bunch of fellas who were talking about buying over motl might actually do it.

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__________________
"Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondon

'The company' *only* has a financial stake in stopping counterfeiting, the personal reasons come into play when the people that make the game get involved. Given how sensitive this problem is, more so when dealing with other countries and cultures, I can understand better why WotC seemed to 'drop the ball' on it. I'd like to read MaRo's thoughts on the matter, I'm sure he has a colourful opinion.

As for the Ghetto MOTL has become I think the 'value trading' focus is only half, the other is rising cost of postage. When I got started I'd think nothing of spending a few dollars a week on a half-dozen low-value trades, how much would that cost these days? For myself here in CZ its at least 65 CZK / 3 USD per envelope.

So I've got to make each trade worth the time and effort, part of that effort being H/W list maintenance which itself can be quite a time-sink.

quote:

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Originally posted by stab107:
I think trading has become much more difficult with the new blood basically being "value traders". My last trade in progress was probably two years back and it was a low value trade in the $20 range. I was trying to match the values based on tcg mid to make it fair money wise. The other party kept adding stuff that imbalanced things by a very small margin, like 7 or 8 percent but always in his favor. It was frustrating enough that I just stopped trading.

Edit: as for why people stop coming I think it is a combination of a number of things, though the two most important would have to be the MOTL price list being broken and the lack of updates for the search function.

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I would like the owner(s) to inform us more often, if possible, of his/their intentions with the site and an ETA. (it's like the train you're in has stopped and the conductor doesn't give you an update on what's up)
I understand that the owner(s) of this site have a life outside this, and that this costs cash, but it feels like this site is slowly being drained. Surely he/they don't mean that to happen?

__________________
I'm a geek, you're a geek. Let's trade.

quote:

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Originally posted by keywacat:
Cau, Chaos021;

'The company' *only* has a financial stake in stopping counterfeiting, the personal reasons come into play when the people that make the game get involved. Given how sensitive this problem is, more so when dealing with other countries and cultures, I can understand better why WotC seemed to 'drop the ball' on it. I'd like to read MaRo's thoughts on the matter, I'm sure he has a colourful opinion.

As for the Ghetto MOTL has become I think the 'value trading' focus is only half, the other is rising cost of postage. When I got started I'd think nothing of spending a few dollars a week on a half-dozen low-value trades, how much would that cost these days? For myself here in CZ its at least 65 CZK / 3 USD per envelope.

So I've got to make each trade worth the time and effort, part of that effort being H/W list maintenance which itself can be quite a time-sink.

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Coys Comics and other game stores have been alerted to high quality fakes being circulated in the area. Coys is currently in possession of the following fakes:

Stoneforge
Jace TMS
Wasteland
Polluted Delta
Flooded Strand
Sword of Fire/Ice

I have seen them personally, and there are 2 good ways to spot them. The first is the set symbol. The rarity color for mythics and rares is 'washed out'. Compare to a legit rare and you'll notice it. Obviously this is hard for older cards. The second is the copyright line on the bottom of the card, and to a lesser extend the rules text box itself. The small lettering is basically blurred.

Be aware, this is only a small portion of the fakes in the area. A single seller was turned away from the Bay City store after being told his cards were fake, but unfortunately was able to sell some to Coys Comics. The owner there saw other cards in the sellers binder, and these fakes may include FBB duals.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

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Originally posted by slurpee:
what's sad is that someone told him they were fakes and still went and sold them to someone else. You can't claim ignorance when you are aware of the issue

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Have you met ignorant people before?

__________________
"Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondon

It seemed that as technology got better, and cheaper, fake MTG cards were sure to overcome / overrun the market and ruin everything. entire collections.

Then, I started viewing my cards with high power microscopy. And I realized how nearly impossible it would be to re-produce authentic MTG cards. Even the direction of the small printed dots would have to match, and the way the black lettering is layered down so crisp against the spaced out dot pattern... It would be quite a task to say the least.

It got me thinking. maybe this whole "counterfeit card" business is just trying to scare people into selling off their whole collections. you know, frighten people who were saving their collections as a "investment" who no longer play, they get to thinking their investment might suddenly be worth nothing, so they dump their collections for cheap.
Then the smart big stores come along and pick up those collections cheap and re-sell for top dollar. And the cycle continues.

quote:

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Originally posted by kingtal0n:

Safe to say, somebody is profiting from this "scare tactics".

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you're a nutter. the chinese bootleg almost anything, because china doesnt have anything resembling western copyright laws. they were out to make a buck. as much as it pains me to say it, this once we are lucky wotc is owned by hasbro. you know how much influence hasbro has in china? a lot. because that's where they make a lot of their crap, and hasbro doesnt like its toes being stepped on.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

quote:

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Originally posted by kingtal0n:
At first, I was worried. Really scared about this problem.

It seemed that as technology got better, and cheaper, fake MTG cards were sure to overcome / overrun the market and ruin everything. entire collections.

tHEY DON
Then, I started viewing my cards with high power microscopy. And I realized how nearly impossible it would be to re-produce authentic MTG cards. Even the direction of the small printed dots would have to match, and the way the black lettering is layered down so crisp against the spaced out dot pattern... It would be quite a task to say the least.

It got me thinking. maybe this whole "counterfeit card" business is just trying to scare people into selling off their whole collections. you know, frighten people who were saving their collections as a "investment" who no longer play, they get to thinking their investment might suddenly be worth nothing, so they dump their collections for cheap.
Then the smart big stores come along and pick up those collections cheap and re-sell for top dollar. And the cycle continues.

Safe to say, somebody is profiting from this "scare tactics".

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They don't have to be perfect. They have to be good enough tto pass cursory inspection.

quote:

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Originally posted by thror:
you're a nutter.

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quote:

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Originally posted by thror:
you're a nutter. the chinese bootleg almost anything, because china doesnt have anything resembling western copyright laws. they were out to make a buck. as much as it pains me to say it, this once we are lucky wotc is owned by hasbro. you know how much influence hasbro has in china? a lot. because that's where they make a lot of their crap, and hasbro doesnt like its toes being stepped on.

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Half the people I meet do not even know who that is. I went to the card store and met someone, I saw his huge collection of $10,000 in magic cards. I asked him, "are you afraid of counterfeits?" And he says "Yes I want to get out of magic because of all the stuff I see on the internet about it. Want to buy my collection?"

Cheap buy, because he is afraid to lose thousands of dollars when "they" start making fake cards that look real. So if I profit from this situation, I am profiting from the scare tactics.

quote:

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Originally posted by kingtal0n:
Half the people I meet do not even know who that is. I went to the card store and met someone, I saw his huge collection of $10,000 in magic cards. I asked him, "are you afraid of counterfeits?" And he says "Yes I want to get out of magic because of all the stuff I see on the internet about it. Want to buy my collection?"

Cheap buy, because he is afraid to lose thousands of dollars when "they" start making fake cards that look real. So if I profit from this situation, I am profiting from the scare tactics.

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$10000 collection isnt "huge".

you lack perspective.. I frequently have more than that out on loan at an open wkend..

©

__________________
Since it is obviously inconceivable that all religions can be right, the most reasonable conclusion is that they are all wrong.
-Christopher Hitchens