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Author Topic:   Rulings Thread Part 48 (ALL rules-related questions go HERE!)
Tha Gunslinga
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posted March 21, 2011 07:36 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Tha Gunslinga Click Here to Email Tha Gunslinga Send a private message to Tha Gunslinga Click to send Tha Gunslinga an Instant MessageVisit Tha Gunslinga's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Tha Gunslinga's Trade Auction or SaleView Tha Gunslinga's Trade Auction or Sale
Welcome to Rulings Thread Part 48.

Post all your rules/tournament questions here and they will get answered. Please wait a bit before you think we ignored you, we all live lives outside of MOTL but we do answer when we see them.

If you are going to answer a question, please be 100% sure that your answer is correct. If you are just guessing or *think* you know the answer, keep it to yourself. There are plenty of judges and people who will know it correctly, and if multiple answers are given, it just confuses the person who asked.

This thread is a flame-free zone. If you can't be civil, don't respond. New players shouldn't be worried about being made fun of when they're trying to learn.

Some information for ya...

Comprehensive Rules (also available in Word, Rich Text, and PDF formats)
The complete rules for the game of Magic. Beginners should not go here; they are very intimidating.
Oracle Card Reference
The official text for every card in existence (use Gatherer for any quick questions about Oracle texts, Gatherer uses the Oracle text of all cards).
Official Tournament Rules
The official rules for sanctioned tournaments.
Basic Rulebook
Simplified rules for beginning players. If you are new to the game, you should read this and not the Comprehensive Rules.
Set FAQs
The official FAQs for each set. Look here if you have a specific question about a card.
Judge Certification Program
How to become a judge.
MTG-L mailing list archives
A good place to get official answers to rules questions, or to search for previous answers.
DCIJUDGE-L mailing list archives
The official Judge list. A good place to search for previous answers and discussion involving judging decisions, philosophy, etc. NOT rules questions. That's what MTG-L is for.

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FlashFrozen
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posted March 21, 2011 07:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for FlashFrozen Click Here to Email FlashFrozen Send a private message to FlashFrozen Click to send FlashFrozen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Need a judge who knows what the official Competitive REL fix for not shuffling a zenith into your library is.
 
DeMoNiC DuNcE
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posted March 22, 2011 01:42 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for DeMoNiC DuNcE Click Here to Email DeMoNiC DuNcE Send a private message to DeMoNiC DuNcE Click to send DeMoNiC DuNcE an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
A friend claims that his etched champion is protected from Day of Judgement when it has Metalcraft. True?
 
Zakman86
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posted March 22, 2011 01:47 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Zakman86 Click Here to Email Zakman86 Send a private message to Zakman86 Click to send Zakman86 an Instant MessageVisit Zakman86's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Zakman86's Have/Want ListView Zakman86's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by DeMoNiC DuNcE:
A friend claims that his etched champion is protected from Day of Judgement when it has Metalcraft. True?

False. Protection protects from all of the following things:

Damage
Equip/Enchant
Blocking
Targeting

Day of Judgment falls under none of the above categories.

 
airwalk
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posted March 22, 2011 01:47 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for airwalk Send a private message to airwalk Click to send airwalk an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DeMoNiC DuNcE:
A friend claims that his etched champion is protected from Day of Judgement when it has Metalcraft. True?

Nope. It's mass removal, no targetting involved so protection from all colors doesnt help.

If we were talking about pyroclasm or something that did damage it would be different.

 
orcishartillery
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posted March 22, 2011 02:21 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for orcishartillery Send a private message to orcishartillery Click to send orcishartillery an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by FlashFrozen:
Need a judge who knows what the official Competitive REL fix for not shuffling a zenith into your library is.

While you're waiting for a response from a judge, here's the relevant section from the current Infraction Procedure Guide:

3.6. Game Play Error — Game Rule Violation

Penalty

Warning

Definition

This infraction covers the majority of game situations in which a player makes an error or fails to follow a game procedure correctly. It handles violations of the Comprehensive Rules that are not covered by the other Game Play Errors.

Examples

A. A player plays Wrath of God for 3W (actual cost 2WW).
B. A player does not attack with a creature that must attack each turn.
C. A player fails to put a creature with lethal damage into a graveyard and it is not noticed until several turns later.
D. A Voice of All is on the battlefield that should have had a color named for it.
E. A player plays Brainstorm and forgets to put two cards back on top of his library.

Philosophy

While Game Rule Violations can be attributed to one player, they usually occur publicly and both players are expected to be mindful of what is happening in the game. It is tempting to try and "fix" these errors, but it is important that they be handled consistently, regardless of their impact on the game.

Additional Remedy

If the error was discovered within a time frame in which a player could reasonably be expected to notice the error and the situation is simple enough to safely back up without too much disruption to the course of the game, the judge may get permission from the Head Judge to back up the game to the point of the error. Each action taken is undone until the game reaches the point immediately prior to the error. Cards incorrectly placed in hand are returned to the location in the zone from which they were moved (if the identity of the incorrectly drawn card is not known to all players, a random card is returned instead). Once the game is backed up, it continues from that point.

If not caught within a reasonable time frame, or backing up is impossible or sufficiently complex that it could affect the course of the game, the judge should leave the game state as it is after applying state-based actions and not attempt any form of partial ‘fix’ – either reverse all actions or none, with the following exceptions:

• If a player failed to make a required choice for a permanent on the battlefield, that player does so.
• If a player forgot to discard or return cards from their hand to another zone, that player does so.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by orcishartillery on March 22, 2011]

 
TimeBeing
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posted March 22, 2011 03:10 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for TimeBeing Click Here to Email TimeBeing Send a private message to TimeBeing Click to send TimeBeing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by FlashFrozen:
Need a judge who knows what the official Competitive REL fix for not shuffling a zenith into your library is.

Depending on when its discovered it will most likely stay in the graveyard.

To shuffle it into the library we would have to back up the game

"If the error was discovered within a time frame in which a player could reasonably be expected to notice the error and the situation is simple enough to safely back up without too much disruption to the course of the game, the judge may get permission from the Head Judge to back up the game to the point of the error."

It up to the judge and head judge to decided if its soon enough and safe enough to back up.

Person who played the GSZ will get a Warning for games rule violation, and the opponent will get a Warning for failing to maintain game state if it wasn't caught right away.

Level 1 Judge


[Edited 1 times, lastly by TimeBeing on March 22, 2011]

 
StormBot4Pi
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posted March 27, 2011 01:44 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for StormBot4Pi Click Here to Email StormBot4Pi Send a private message to StormBot4Pi Click to send StormBot4Pi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
In EDH can a General be cast from the Command Zone using Dream Halls' alternate cost?
 
caquaa
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posted March 27, 2011 02:43 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by StormBot4Pi:
In EDH can a General be cast from the Command Zone using Dream Halls' alternate cost?

yes, but you still must pay any additional cost (2 per time the general has been played previously).

 
bertrand
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posted March 27, 2011 05:48 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for bertrand Click Here to Email bertrand Send a private message to bertrand Click to send bertrand an Instant MessageVisit bertrand's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View bertrand's Trade Auction or SaleView bertrand's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by FlashFrozen:
Need a judge who knows what the official Competitive REL fix for not shuffling a zenith into your library is.

If caught quickly by opponent
Game Play Error - Game Rules Violation to Zenith player, and shuffle Zenith into library immediately.

If noticed later
Game Play Error - Game Rules Violation to Zenith player
Game Play Error - Failure to Maintain Game State to opponent, and leave the Zenith in graveyard.

Level 1 Judge

[Edited 1 times, lastly by bertrand on March 27, 2011]

 
farsk8dutch
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posted April 01, 2011 02:19 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for farsk8dutch Click Here to Email farsk8dutch Send a private message to farsk8dutch Click to send farsk8dutch an Instant MessageVisit farsk8dutch's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View farsk8dutch's Have/Want ListView farsk8dutch's Have/Want List
I saw this on in the sally forums. Is there any truth to this. Reason I'm asking, if this is true then if I were to cast an Enchant Creature spell (Control Magic) on him would it work?

quote:
Originally Posted by legacymarch
Emrakul has protection from Stingscourger.

No, he really doesn't. He has no more protection from Stingscourger than he does from Oblivion Ring or Journey to Nowhere or any other ability of any kind.

Coloured Spell ≠ Ability from a Coloured Source.

If he just had straight up Protection from Coloured, then he would ignore Stingscourger, but he doesn't, so he wont.

==================

I know some members over at Sally's don't have a clue and are more misinforming than anything, but the part about ability vs. spell and Emrakul having protection from colored spells is what I'm unsure of.

Thanks in advance for any clarification.

 
thror
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posted April 01, 2011 02:43 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
Control Magic is a spell while it is on the stack. Auras on the stack have a target. Control magic is a colored spell. Therefor, emrakul has protection from it, meaning you cannot cast control magic targeting emrakul.

IF you were to cast something like Open the Vaults, with control magic in the graveyard, you could put control magic onto the battlefield enchanting Emrakul.

Journey to Nowhere doesn't do anything as a spell. Once it resolves, it has an 'enters the battlefield' triggered ability, which emrakul does not have protection from.

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Jazaray
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posted April 02, 2011 09:12 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Jazaray Click Here to Email Jazaray Send a private message to Jazaray Click to send Jazaray an Instant MessageVisit Jazaray's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Are Planeswalkers considered "Players"?

IE: if I hit Gideon with my Shadowmage Infiltrator, do I get to draw a card?

Can I redirect damage that is supposed to be dealt to a "player" to a planeswalker?

IE: Perilous Myr, when it hits the graveyard do 2 damage to target creature or player. Can I hit Gideon instead? Or (I'm sorry I forget the name of the spell...) Deal 2 damage to each creature and player, can I redirect to Gideon?


Thanks,
Jazaray

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Sovarius
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posted April 02, 2011 09:30 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Jazaray:
Are Planeswalkers considered "Players"?
No

IE: if I hit Gideon with my Shadowmage Infiltrator, do I get to draw a card?
Nope

Can I redirect damage that is supposed to be dealt to a "player" to a planeswalker?
Yes. It happens upon resolution that you decide it will be dealt to a walker instead (you initially start by targeting the player)

IE: Perilous Myr, when it hits the graveyard do 2 damage to target creature or player. Can I hit Gideon instead? Or (I'm sorry I forget the name of the spell...) Deal 2 damage to each creature and player, can I redirect to Gideon?
Yes and yes ma'am.

Thanks,
Jazaray


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caquaa
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posted April 02, 2011 11:45 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Jazaray:
Can I redirect damage that is supposed to be dealt to a "player" to a planeswalker?

IE: Perilous Myr, when it hits the graveyard do 2 damage to target creature or player. Can I hit Gideon instead? Or (I'm sorry I forget the name of the spell...) Deal 2 damage to each creature and player, can I redirect to Gideon?


While your examples are fairly clear, I did want to clarify the answer given based on your phrasing of the question. Here is the rule for redirecting damage to a planeswalker, with some important parts bolded.


306.7. If noncombat damage would be dealt to a player by a source controlled by an opponent, that opponent may have that source deal that damage to a planeswalker the first player controls instead. This is a redirection effect (see rule 614.9) and is subject to the normal rules for ordering replacement effects (see rule 616). The opponent chooses whether to redirect the damage as the redirection effect is applied.

 
ogre
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posted April 03, 2011 10:57 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for ogre Click Here to Email ogre Send a private message to ogre Click to send ogre an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ogre's Have/Want ListView ogre's Have/Want List
Okay,

Stasis and Teferi's Realm
- Stasis reads that there is no untap step but w/ phasing the phased out cards come in prior to the untap step, enter teferi's realm which has a player phase out, of their choice, all creatures, land, artifacts, or global enchantments at the beginning of their upkeep. Since there is no untap step, do phased out cards come back into play at all? Also, if they do, do they come in as they left either tapped/untapped and w/ counters that were already on them for example a creature w/ two +1/+1 counters or say an aether vial w/ three counters on it, would these come back w/ no counters or however many they left play w/?

Need to study this one a bit I believe after playing a deck last night!

Thanks in advance to those that reply,
Jesse

Edit: wasn't sure if I could post using google chrome...

[Edited 1 times, lastly by ogre on April 03, 2011]

 
caquaa
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posted April 03, 2011 01:49 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
linking cards also helps
stasis

from gatherer link:
10/4/2004 Since there is no untap step, Phasing in/out won't happen.

 
Soldier Boi
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posted April 04, 2011 12:39 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Soldier Boi Click Here to Email Soldier Boi Send a private message to Soldier Boi Click to send Soldier Boi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
With Trinisphere and Sphere of Resistance in play how much would lightning bolt cost to play?
 
Meddling Pimp
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posted April 04, 2011 01:10 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Meddling Pimp Click Here to Email Meddling Pimp Send a private message to Meddling Pimp Click to send Meddling Pimp an Instant MessageVisit Meddling Pimp's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Soldier Boi:
With Trinisphere and Sphere of Resistance in play how much would lightning bolt cost to play?

2R. When determining costs of a spell, start with the base cost (mana cost or alternate), add any effects that increases, reduce for any decrease effects then set cost (Trinisphere).

 
Brujah-99
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posted April 04, 2011 04:55 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Brujah-99 Click Here to Email Brujah-99 Send a private message to Brujah-99 Click to send Brujah-99 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Meddling Pimp:
2R. When determining costs of a spell, start with the base cost (mana cost or alternate), add any effects that increases, reduce for any decrease effects then set cost (Trinisphere).

So if my opponent is playing a frogmite and has 5 artificats in play, and I have a sphere of resistance in play would the frogmite still cost 0?

 
Meddling Pimp
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posted April 04, 2011 05:32 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Meddling Pimp Click Here to Email Meddling Pimp Send a private message to Meddling Pimp Click to send Meddling Pimp an Instant MessageVisit Meddling Pimp's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Brujah-99:
So if my opponent is playing a frogmite and has 5 artificats in play, and I have a sphere of resistance in play would the frogmite still cost 0?

Correct. It starts at 4, goes up to 5 for sphere then reduced by 5 for affinity.

 
Brujah-99
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posted April 04, 2011 05:41 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Brujah-99 Click Here to Email Brujah-99 Send a private message to Brujah-99 Click to send Brujah-99 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Thanks. I've been meaning to ask another question for awhile: If I have a symbiotic wurm in play and a player attacks me with a creature with annihilator 6 can I sac the wurm as the first permanent, allow the tokens to come in to play, and then use the tokens to satisfy the rest of the permanents I have to sacrifice for annihilator?
 
thror
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posted April 04, 2011 05:55 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
No, you must sacrifice 6 permanents all at once.

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[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
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Soldier Boi
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posted April 05, 2011 02:36 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Soldier Boi Click Here to Email Soldier Boi Send a private message to Soldier Boi Click to send Soldier Boi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
What about Trinisphere playing FOW alternate cost?
 
Meddling Pimp
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posted April 05, 2011 05:21 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Meddling Pimp Click Here to Email Meddling Pimp Send a private message to Meddling Pimp Click to send Meddling Pimp an Instant MessageVisit Meddling Pimp's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Soldier Boi:
What about Trinisphere playing FOW alternate cost?

You'll have to pay 3, 1 life and exile a blue card.

 

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