Hopefully we can all be civil.

Obviously any sex crime is capital-B bad, but this is a guy who served his time, has reformed and got his civil rights back some time later. Wizards also blocked his MTGO account permanently.

This is a bad precedent. One other hall of famer has a drug dealing rap. Further, he never did anything wrong as a magic player or at a magic event. Presumably the SCG loudmouth who started blabbering about this guy's record googled him or something.

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
No thread for this yet, Zach Jesse was banned until 2049 from the DCI because ten years ago he pled guilty to sexual battery as part of a plea bargain.

Hopefully we can all be civil.

Obviously any sex crime is capital-B bad, but this is a guy who served his time, has reformed and got his civil rights back some time later. Wizards also blocked his MTGO account permanently.

This is a bad precedent. One other hall of famer has a drug dealing rap. Further, he never did anything wrong as a magic player or at a magic event. Presumably the SCG loudmouth who started blabbering about this guy's record googled him or something.

I don't think it is WOTC's place to punish somebody for something that happened 10 years ago. That's the role of the judicial system. Nobody knew or cared about his record until the SCG guy blabbed about it. Continuing to punish somebody for life even after they have served their time is simply not constructive. How do you draw the line? Would an armed robbery conviction disqualify somebody from being allowed to play magic? What about fraud? I know a certain Brick and Mortar storeowner in town who has a rich history selling stolen goods.

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They don't want to promote that, and really they could care less about the individual. His defense is I paid my time, they are just protecting themselves. Is it right morally? No, but should he do something and they knew he had a wrap for this it could come back on wizards and tournament organizers. Given the settings of young people at tournments, I totally see why, but I understand both sides.

Do I think they should do that? No. Do I think that's about the only thing that would make them not a bunch of over reacting hypocrites? Probably

I would think playing Magic would be the least of his concerns though.

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Originally posted by paragondave:
I'd need more details of the sexual battery case that he plead guilty to, in order to have a better informed opinion.

I would think playing Magic would be the least of his concerns though.

It is not surprising that something like that would come back to haunt someone.

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Zach Jesse has done a lot to try to make the world a better place since the incident, but that doesn't erase the incident.

I don't believe it is WotC's place to punish someone for something that happened 10 years ago, but I am an adult, playing a game with other adults. WotC is marketing a children's game to children and needs to think about how an association with a rapist could hurt their brand.

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Drew needs to be suspended for harassing players, and Zach Jesse should AT LEAST be allowed to play MTGO.[/B]

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This is honestly, the biggest issue right now, it's unlikely that WotC will unban Zach from being able to enter DCI sanctioned tournaments; but he should still be allowed to either A. continue to use MTGO; or B. be fully refunded for all money spent on the system - as well as additional compensation for the value of the MTGO collection he had.

Additionally (and the biggest issue by far), Drew needs to be banned - what he did was high-tier scumbaggery at its worst. If I could find the other bits and pieces; a few judges and other high-profile players should also be reprimanded for certain comments made towards the situation. At least one judge made a twitter comment about hanging Zach.

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Originally posted by aethertech:
To my limited knowledge of the event, both parties were intoxicated, and Zach J., was offered, and took a plea bargain. It was ~10 years ago.

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I haven't really gotten into the story, but when you become intoxicated by alcohol or drugs you do so full-knowingly. To me that means you are 100% responsible for your actions. The fact that it was 10 years ago doesn't count for me as well. Just wait until it is ones kid that is sexually harassed, then we'll see if one thinks that the crime becomes less serious or un-punishable after an amount of time.

On case, I don't think Wizards should ban anyone like they did.

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Originally posted by AEther Storm:
I haven't really gotten into the story, but when you become intoxicated by alcohol or drugs you do so full-knowingly. To me that means you are 100% responsible for your actions.

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By your statement, the "victim" is responsible for her own "rape" because she decided to get drunk. That's a very slippery slope you've created.

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Originally posted by AEther Storm:
The fact that it was 10 years ago doesn't count for me as well. Just wait until it is ones kid that is sexually harassed, then we'll see if one thinks that the crime becomes less serious or un-punishable after an amount of time.

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Could you please re-type this whole statement? It's very confusing to read and I'm not quite sure as to your actual point(s)?

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Originally posted by AEther Storm:
On case, I don't think Wizards should ban anyone like they did.

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Originally posted by aethertech:
By your statement, the "victim" is responsible for her own "rape" because she decided to get drunk. That's a very slippery slope you've created.

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No, as I read/understand it, both people were intoxicated? You know what can happen when you get drunk or anything, that's why people shouldn't drive after drinking, for instance. If you drink too much, well, one can pass out, alcohol poisoning, etc. Example, I know that when I go out to get tipsy/drunk, I shouldn't drive back home because I could create an accident. You are responsible for your own actions.
My point is, being intoxicated doesn't reduce the severeness of the crime.

EDIT: and yes, the person who was taken advantage from isn't the brightest one, too. The same goes for her. You know that when you've drank too much you could be taken advantage from (in one way or the other, doesn't necessarily have to be rape, could be anything). That being said, she is not responsible for his actions and therefore no guilty party. He committed a crime, not her.

Could you please re-type this whole statement? It's very confusing to read and I'm not quite sure as to your actual point(s)?

Someone indicated that the crime had taken place 10 years ago. What I mean is that with a crime, after a certain amount of time has lapsed, becomes 'unpunishable' or the severeness of the sentence/penalty decreases. I disagree with that.
Let's say I break into your house and steal something. If I get caught, I would get 5 years in jail for that. If I get caught in 20 years, I believe I should still get 5 years in jail for that.

As in: not ban Z. Jesse at all?
Maybe temporarily. After someone has paid the fine or done the time, let him back in. Let him play MTGO but don't allow him to come back to physical tournaments until his sentence/penalty/fine has been completed.

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Originally posted by AEther Storm:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by aethertech:
By your statement, the "victim" is responsible for her own "rape" because she decided to get drunk. That's a very slippery slope you've created.

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[/QUOTE]

btw, you agree or disagree with me?

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Sorry, but I give zero firetrucks for his suffering at not being able to play Magic.

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Originally posted by paragondave:
Every convict who has 'served' their time still deals with the consequences of their actions after they are released. Being banned from playing Magic seems inconsequential in regards to the other more life affecting consequences that he will surely face or is facing, like having to register as a sex offender, difficulty in finding employment or housing, etc.

Sorry, but I give zero firetrucks for his suffering at not being able to play Magic.

After reading the UVA rape report linked to earlier, I feel even less sympathy for this guy. He should consider himself fortunate that neither he nor the victim are my child (my son is the same age as Jesse). In either case he would likely no longer be walking this earth.

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Originally posted by paragondave:
Every convict who has 'served' their time still deals with the consequences of their actions after they are released. Being banned from playing Magic seems inconsequential in regards to the other more life affecting consequences that he will surely face or is facing, like having to register as a sex offender, difficulty in finding employment or housing, etc.

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Correct, which isn't fair if you follow the system. One has done the time or paid their dues. After that the slate should be clean. Marked, but clean.

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Sorry, but I give zero firetrucks for his suffering at not being able to play Magic.

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Originally posted by aethertech:
Thank you, for re-affirming just how much of a douchebag you are. Now, would you like to take your murder-happy tendencies and go get some professional help - as in, a psychiatrist?

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so much for civility...

Friend of yours?

Let me know how you feel after someone rapes your daughter.

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Originally posted by paragondave:
Let me know how you feel after someone rapes your daughter.

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However, I think slurpee's point is the one that matters. WoTC is definitely playing damage control. This is a PR move to me, and this guy is unfortunately their scapegoat. They wash themselves of any problems this guy might cause (although nobody has mentioned a record of him doing ANYTHING at a Magic event), and for a lot of people it makes them like Wizards a lot more for it.

Wizards can now pander to all of the anti-bullying group hug **** that goes on in this country. That's a lot of parents who have teenagers that play the game, and a lot of other people too. It's gotta be because it's so prevalent in society. It's just a good move on their part.

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Originally posted by stu55:
We all understand that Hasbro is the one calling the shots here right and not WoTC? It makes a bit more sense when a publicly trade toy company does something like this and not a CCG subsidiary of said company.

That said, that said, Jesse did something terrible 10 years ago (do NOT call it a mistake, a mistake is making a typo), but people did not have all the facts about the resolution of the case and how it happened.

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