Author
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Topic: Using StarCity Games To Establish Value
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CrazyBones Member
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posted May 29, 2012 04:37 PM
Hello everyone.I'm curious to know why using StarCity Games (or any single website/company) as a benchmark for value is so common? If StarCity runs low or has an abundance of a card, it could cause them to raise or drop their prices (and rightly so). Which of course means that people are trading at values that are based on their inventory? Nothing against the company or their prices as I am just trying to get an understanding. It seems like a very narrow sample of the marketplace compared to say magiccards.info. Anyone using this process want to share their two cents with me?
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Devonin Member
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posted May 29, 2012 04:45 PM
It's an easily referenced price point backed by a long-standing company with a strong business model.They are going to be making every effort to price their cards at a rate where they maximize their profit while still pricing low enough to find buyers. If both sides are measured against the same system, a general balance is achieved. More sources might give more data points, but they also introduce more variables. eBay prices need to account for whether the people paid shipping or not, or how much shipping, user-made aggregate price measurements aren't necessarily provably up to date, you don't always know everything they are counting etc. Basically, SCG is a price where the cards are provably selling, and aren't lowballed.
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jaxsonpride Member
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posted May 29, 2012 05:04 PM
i got a trade offer from a guy the other day and told him i could not make the trade due to the difference in pricing being heavily in his favor he than messaged me saying that only the noobs to the site use SCG for pricing and most people use Ebay....im sorry but SCG is a constant where ebay has many different aspect to judging a price imo SCG is the way to or anouther established fixed rate site not a auction site
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WeedIan Member
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posted May 29, 2012 05:21 PM
People use Star City games because they can move rares that people don't normally want in trades for a higher value than 15 cents.__________________ Member Since 03/28/2001 12000+ posts 1st in posts in Ontario 11th in posts on MOTL 5th in Refs in Ontario Pushing to get to top 100 in MOTL Refs
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choco man Member
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posted May 29, 2012 05:27 PM
quote: Originally posted by jaxsonpride: i got a trade offer from a guy the other day and told him i could not make the trade due to the difference in pricing being heavily in his favor he than messaged me saying that only the noobs to the site use SCG for pricing and most people use Ebay....im sorry but SCG is a constant where ebay has many different aspect to judging a price imo SCG is the way to or anouther established fixed rate site not a auction site
Noobs aren't the only ones using SCG as a guide. Pros also use SCG as a guide also when it benefits them. Trades don't exist in a vacuum. A trade can be fair when the prices don't match up.
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B14ckM4g3 Member
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posted May 29, 2012 05:47 PM
A card is worth what someone will pay for it...personally I am not a fan of SCG for price values. As they can choose to inflate a price overnight because they are out of stock, price .10c cards for 1.00, and overall just don't seem to stay very 'on top' of new cards (anyone else buy huntmaster of the fells for $6.00 and not get a sorin at 45.00? then trade 1 of many huntmasteres for 2 sorin in 2 weeks after release? yea, that happened). Thoughtseize for 40 dollars, when I can buy it on this site for 22, and maybe even cheaper elsewhere? Yes, fools do use SCG. But fools are the ones that use only one website constantly for pricing. Use several, make sure you don't get a bad deal.
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Sovarius Member
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posted May 29, 2012 06:24 PM
SCG is basically about as blatant of a ripoff as you can be. If you love overvalued cards, then go there. It is popularly used because a lot of people don't realize that cards are actually cheaper. They just know SCG is famous, and it becomes a standard.If i could go to my card shop and sell Tamiyo at 35 without feeling guilty, i would. Also i've learned recently their foil prices are bonkers and probably never accurate. __________________ Looking to buy any Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief oddities/pimp.My trades My sales
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undersow Member
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posted May 29, 2012 06:47 PM
quote: Originally posted by jaxsonpride: i got a trade offer from a guy the other day and told him i could not make the trade due to the difference in pricing being heavily in his favor he than messaged me saying that only the noobs to the site use SCG for pricing and most people use Ebay....im sorry but SCG is a constant where ebay has many different aspect to judging a price imo SCG is the way to or anouther established fixed rate site not a auction site
As long as its within the same format i use star city for trading. Of course staples from older sets are going to be valued slightly higher due to availability.
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rats60 Member
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posted May 29, 2012 07:01 PM
quote: Originally posted by CrazyBones: Nothing against the company or their prices as I am just trying to get an understanding. It seems like a very narrow sample of the marketplace compared to say magiccards.info. Anyone using this process want to share their two cents with me?
Why do you use magiccards.info? Do you actually pay those prices? At least SCG is a standard that the general public accepts (same with Troll and Toad). People know that their cards are properly graded. I've heard people complain that magiccards prices are inaccurate because of less than mint cards being offered for sale. I also had someone wanting to trade with me using that price guide when it was higher than SCG on their cards and lower on mine. It just seems to me like the people use magiccards to try to take advantage of people, not that some don't use SCG for the same purpose.
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MagicPatty Member
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posted May 29, 2012 07:04 PM
The problem with SCG for pricing is that I can put random bulk rares on your list that would normally be worth a dime at .49, .79 or even 1.00 because that's what SCG has them listed for. Sure, the 20.00 SCG value card I'm trading for is really only worth 14.00, but if Im giving you thirty crap rares for it, I'm getting the card for essentially 3.00...I was under the impression that one only uses SCG pricing to make a trade seem fair when it genuinely is not.
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Volcanon Member
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posted May 29, 2012 07:21 PM
Starcity sell price represents what they can get in value for something, not what you can get.Also, as another guy said, people try and use starcity to overvalue terrible bulk when somebody else wants to trade for it. A question is: Why would I trade with somebody here and take all sorts of risks when I can get excellent customer service and no boring back and forth over a 50 cent difference in a trade here? Cuz yeah, those prices include things like customer service and wages to pay people to do stuff like condition the cards, pay rent and mail them. You know, things that don't really reflect the value of the cards at all?
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Jtrade77 Member
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posted May 29, 2012 07:28 PM
quote: Originally posted by WeedIan: People use Star City games because they can move rares that people don't normally want in trades for a higher value than 15 cents.
Quoted for truthery. SCG allows for trading your bad rares for my good rares, which is why I don't use it. If you want to use it, I don't mind trading bulk for good stuff though.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Jtrade77 on May 29, 2012]
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Vegas10 Member
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posted May 29, 2012 09:04 PM
Whether it is SCG, Troll and Toad, Magic Cards.Info, MOTL Price guide, they all have there uses and I general use more than one to evaluate trades, if the trade is about equal on multiple fromts ( assume you are using the same site to evaluate both sides in each scenerio of same trade) then the deal is probably pretty fair. However Money Value isn't the only factor in trade, availibilty and uniqness of a card can also affect a trade.
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CrazyBones Member
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posted May 29, 2012 09:14 PM
quote: Originally posted by rats60: Why do you use magiccards.info? Do you actually pay those prices?
I use that websites medium price (average) as it aggregates multiple vendors instead of just one and in my opinion gives a realistic value on most cards. It's not a perfect, nothing is. @everyone - thank you for all the feedback.
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Goaswerfraiejen Member
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posted May 29, 2012 09:39 PM
SCG, as others have already amply pointed out, has an entirely different set of priorities from me, and their prices reflect those priorities. If I want to know what a card is worth, then I compare it to the prices people with similar goals and base costs are paying--in other words, ebay's completed and current listings are the way to go, although I usually start with aggregated values via MOTL or ApathyHouse and then check them against ebay for specific cards.The worst is when someone offers you a trade with SCG's buy-values for your cards and their sell-values for theirs. __________________ "I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. EliotRIP Ari Legacy UGB River Rock primer. PM comments/questions. Info on grad school in Phil.
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Mr.C Member
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posted May 29, 2012 09:41 PM
quote: Originally posted by WeedIan: People use Star City games because they can move rares that people don't normally want in trades for a higher value than 15 cents.
Pretty much.
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Zeckk Member
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posted May 29, 2012 10:18 PM
quote: Originally posted by Jtrade77: Quoted for truthery. SCG allows for trading your bad rares for my good rares, which is why I don't use it. If you want to use it, I don't mind trading bulk for good stuff though.
That's one perspective. The other perspective being, if you can get those crap rares for a dime, by all means feel free to hop on ebay and grab each of those crap rares at your best market value.... plus the $40 in shipping costs. "Crap" rares aren't crap if someone is willing to trade for them, period. More importantly, SCG is generally within 10% of the tcgplayer/magiccardinfo average price, barring very rare cards or certain promos. The bottom line is that every pricing source has it's drawbacks. MOTL and apathyhouse are both terrible for brand-new cards. TCGplayer/Magiccardsinfo don't have many listings for promo cards or specialty cards like ZEN foil Basics. SCG/CFB prices get out of hand on high-velocity items, especially standard stuff. For every guy that's tried to gouge me with SCG, I've had another guy that's tried to manipulate apathyhouse or ebay listings in his favor. The end result is that card pricing from retail outlets and ebay doesn't always correlate perfectly to trading values.
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Mr.C Member
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posted May 29, 2012 10:31 PM
quote: Originally posted by Zeckk: That's one perspective. The other perspective being, if you can get those crap rares for a dime, by all means feel free to hop on ebay and grab each of those crap rares at your best market value.... plus the $40 in shipping costs."Crap" rares aren't crap if someone is willing to trade for them, period. More importantly, SCG is generally within 10% of the tcgplayer/magiccardinfo average price, barring very rare cards or certain promos. The bottom line is that every pricing source has it's drawbacks. MOTL and apathyhouse are both terrible for brand-new cards. TCGplayer/Magiccardsinfo don't have many listings for promo cards or specialty cards like ZEN foil Basics. SCG/CFB prices get out of hand on high-velocity items, especially standard stuff. For every guy that's tried to gouge me with SCG, I've had another guy that's tried to manipulate apathyhouse or ebay listings in his favor. The end result is that card pricing from retail outlets and ebay doesn't always correlate perfectly to trading values.
The percentage that SCG inflates prices compared to what the actual fair market value is, is much higher for crap than good cards. Edit: I also don't have to go to eBay to buy crap rares. Many stores on TCGPlayer offer crap rares for what they are worth, and with free shipping for orders $50+ to boot.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mr.C on May 29, 2012]
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TimeBeing Member
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posted May 30, 2012 01:59 AM
I see SCG as price that is the max replacment cost of a card. If I need a card now that's the most for zero risk. It's also easy to use to look up prices. Is it a good price guide? Not really. But for thing like odd EDH foils that rarely go on sale on eBay it's a good place to start.
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flophaus Member
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posted May 30, 2012 02:05 AM
SCG is poo and it created this huge MTG bubble =(
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dwiz Member
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posted May 30, 2012 04:05 AM
quote: Originally posted by rats60: Why do you use magiccards.info? Do you actually pay those prices? At least SCG is a standard that the general public accepts (same with Troll and Toad).
I think you can see from this thread that SCG is definitely NOT a standard that the general public accepts.
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D'Shay Member
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posted May 30, 2012 06:54 AM
Does anyone use findmagiccards.com to see and compare card value? I generally look up cards there, and on SCG's to compare and i find it seems to work, at least for my area.There is a big difference from trading online, than trading in person, especially on card value. Online there is assumptions/chance about the condition etc. But in person, there is no assumptions needed. I can see/feel the cards and talk to the person, and to me, those are huge differences. So really you need to know what your locals are using for a guide and either adapt to their value system, or try and direct them to use what you are using
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coolio Member
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posted May 30, 2012 07:34 AM
quote: Originally posted by jaxsonpride: i got a trade offer from a guy the other day and told him i could not make the trade due to the difference in pricing being heavily in his favor he than messaged me saying that only the noobs to the site use SCG for pricing and most people use Ebay....im sorry but SCG is a constant where ebay has many different aspect to judging a price imo SCG is the way to or anouther established fixed rate site not a auction site
ebay is the closer assessment in determining actual market value. auctions give a better inside look at value in letting the free market determine a card's value based on what buyers are willing to pay. © __________________ Since it is obviously inconceivable that all religions can be right, the most reasonable conclusion is that they are all wrong. -Christopher HitchensReligion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. -Seneca the Younger
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hilikuS Member
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posted May 30, 2012 07:46 AM
quote: Originally posted by coolio: ebay is the closer assessment in determining actual market value. auctions give a better inside look at value in letting the free market determine a card's value based on what buyers are willing to pay.©
This. But in a trade, if we're all using the same guide, I really don't care too much.
Just got to be wary of trading up when using SCG or any other dealer site as a benchmark. I prefer the MOTL guide, and use that as a guide for selling. I can't get anyone to pay SCG prices anyway, whether it be online or locally. I find it unethical to ask for those prices when I know the cards are worth less on the open market. Not saying anyone else should feel that way (they don't), but I do. Especially around here, why would you buy from my backpack for full retail? I got to have some advantage to the people that I sell to. That being a lower price. It gets frustrating to me because a lot of people insist that SCG's is the price at which the card should be valued. I used to argue saying that I'll sell them x copies of a card for 75% of SCG to them ALL DAY, but of course, "naw I don't wanna buy the card". I presume it's because the card isn't worth that much . Yes, the people who run that company are amazing businessmen, and they make plenty of money. I admire what they've built, and realize that they can easily get the prices they want. When you have tens of thousands of people checking your inventory daily, that tends to happen. They have done a lot for the game as well. Which sometimes I think people take for granted, especially with the eternal formats. However, I don't think their site is a useful price guide (unless I'm trading up and we're both using it ).
[Edited 1 times, lastly by hilikuS on May 30, 2012]
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paragondave Member
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posted May 30, 2012 08:05 AM
SCG is just one of many tools. It's best to use common sense and more than one valuation method when so many exist.
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