So, we know fakes have existed for as long as magic has. Some better/some worse. Each different run produced by different people or at different times with different methods has a different way or ways to tell the are fake. In the past year the ones I've personally seen include:

Dual lands shipped from the Philippines.
61 diferrent cards shipped from China

Description of those:

The duals from the Philippines I actually received from an auction I bought. It was someone claiming to be a consignment seller (he sells other people's stuff on ebay for them - seller HopeToLast). He claimed the cards had been in screw down cases when there was a flood. They were described as water damaged. They did this because the texture on the card was a clear give-away and the color was off. The cards were very rigid and didn't pass the bend test, however the print pattern looked correct

The Chinese cards I was able to inspect fall in to 2 categories in my mind. Modern legal cards & older cards. The print pattern is kind of correct in that it has the signature pattern for the patented printing process...but it has this all over the card. So where the black or white borders should just be solid black or white the fakes have specs of color in them. They let light pass through, but not quite as much as real cards. They feel more like 'poker cards' as they have a glossy feel to them and aren't quite as stiff as MTG cards.

The list I was told exists for these include (duals all revised - power all unlimited except the 2nd lotus):

Underground sea
Volcanic Island
Tropical Island
Tundra
Bayou
Badlands
Taiga
Savannah
Scrubland
Plateau
Tarmogoyf mma
Tarmogoyf fs
Dark Confidant rav
Dark Confidant mma
Flusterstorm
Force of Will
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Nobel Hierarch
Vendilion Clique original
Snapcaster Mage
Black Lotus unlimited
Black Lotus beta
Thoughtseize theros
Thoughtseize Lorwyn
Verdant Catacombs
Scalding Tarn
Misty Rainforest
Grove of the Burnwillows
Spellskite
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Mox Pearl
Mox Ruby
Mox Sapphire
Ancestral Recall
Time Walk
Timetwister
Time Vault
Demonic Tutor
Imperial Recruiter
Forcefield
Mana Drain
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Library of Alexandria
Moat
Bazaar of Baghdad
Karakas
Sneak Attack
Gaea's Cradle
Wasteland
City of Traitors
Juzam Djinn
Mishra's Workshop
Nether Void (white border - oops?)
The Abyss
Maze of Ith
Mana Crypt
Lion's Eye Diamond
Candelabra of Tawnos
Mox Diamond
Blinkmoth Nexus
Inkmoth Nexus

All were english. Either the time vault or the forcefield were black border, I'm not sure. Though the list above was provided, my source didn't say he actually saw the misty rainforest or the wasteland.
From what I saw the older cards you could tell pretty easily the colors were off so I'm not too concerned about those. I suspect people will just use those for proxies to play with or get altered, though I am concerned about people altering these to help pass off as real in a perfect fit. Make sure to physically touch any cards you buy, take them out of sleeves.

The cards with the modern face were much more difficult to tell were fakes. The colors looked right. The only good way to tell they were fakes were to either look at them through a jewelers loupe specifically looking to see if the borders were right or touch them. However some of these like theros thoughtseize, inkmoth/blinkmoth are cheap enough many people might not worry about taking them out of a perfect fit. Luckily since these bend a little bit more, I suspect they might curve in a perfect fit so look for that.
I know with the rash of fakes coming out of China we've seen other but similar cards lists. For example, this person didnt' seem to have Show and tell but might in the future. I've also heard about shock lands and additional fetch lands being printed.

I've also seen a lot of fakes showing up on ebay lately that concern me, including

FBB duals
Unlimited duals
other higher value cards

Usually these are coming from outside the US including countries like the Czech republic, etc, but some I saw (including Unl duals) were within the US which concerned me even more.

What
Sources of fakes are you seeing
list of cards did they include
how can you tell those are fake
etc

Are there other centralized locations people are storing this information?

quote:

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Originally posted by chapman24:
there has been some fakes turning up in the Denver, CO area may or may not be just one dude trying to pass them off, he has been black listed from most shops in the area

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Can you describe the fakes? Like which cards were they and how could you tell? Anyone get from him where he got them?

quote:

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Originally posted by spike777:
I got a temple Garden and sacred foundry off eBay, both the playing card-slick fakes. I don't really understand why people are still trying to sell/trade them. They're clearly fakes once they're out of sleeves and you can feel them. However, the ones I've handled would easily pass for real in double sleeved in decks. You can't tell at all from a foot away through a sleeve.

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Ya, I've seen some people on reddit post about some shocks like that. Was the only way to tell on the shocks to feel them? Have you looked at any through a jewelers loupe? I'm afraid that stuff people just often trade for and don't take out of people's perfect fits on cheaper items like shocks. Any more details you can provide?

List A:
Scalding Tarn
Misty Rainforest
Verdant Catacombs
Marsh Flats
Arid Mesa
Flooded Strand
Polluted Delta
Wooded Foothills
Bloodstained Mire
Windswept Heath
Tarmogoyf
Dark confident
Cryptic Command
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Karn Liberated
Twilight Mire
Crucible of Worlds
Flooded Grove
Cascade Bluffs
Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Sword of Light and Shadow
Sword of Feast and Famine
Sword of War and Peace
Threads of Disloyalty
Scapeshift
Thoughtseize
Ensnaring Bridge
Arcbound Ravager
Spellskite
Sunken Ruins
Voice of Resurgence
Splinter Twin
Blood Moon
Batterskull
Primeval Titan
Elspeth,Sun's Champion
bitterblossom
Remand
Blinkmoth Nexus
Inlinkmoth Nexus
Snapcaster Mage
Phyrexian Obliterator
geist of saint traft
Chalice of the Void
Abrupt Decay
Kikj-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Steam Vents
Sacred Foundry
Temple Garden
Overgrown Tomb
Breeding Pool
Blood crypt
Godless Shrine
Hallowed Fountain
watery grave
Stomping Ground

List B:

Tundra
Underground Sea
Badlands
Taiga
Savannah
Scrubland
Volcanic Island
Bayou
Plateau
Tropical Island
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Chains of Mephistopheles
Moat
Tarmogoyf
Imperial Recruiter
Imperial Seal
Gaea's Cradle
Rishadan Port
Force of Will
Jace, the mind Sculptor
Lion's Eye Diamond
Dark Confidant
Wasteland
City of Traitors
Vendilion Clique x
Show and Tell
Sneak Attack
Stifle
Liliana of the Veil
Mox Opal
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Sword of Fire and Ice
Damnation
Flusterstorm
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
Fulminator Mage
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Horizon Canopy
Umezawa's Jittle
Grove of the Burnwillows
Mox Diamond
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Sinkhole
Sensei's Divining Top
Glimpse of Nature
Iona, Shield of Emerie
Leyline of Sanctity
Stoneforge Mystic
Entomb
Goblin Guide
AEther Vial
True-Name Nemesis
Natural Oeder
Nobel Hierarch
Greselbrand
Karakas

List C:

Tundra
Underground Sea
Badlands
Taiga
Savannah
Scrubland
Volcanic Island
Bayou
Plateau
Tropical Island
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Mox Pearl
Mox Ruby
Mox Sapphire
Black Lotus White border
Ancest Recall
Time Walk
Time Twist
Time Vault
Demonic Tutor
Imperial seal
Imperial Recruiter
Black Lotus black border
Forcefield
Force of Will
Mana Drain
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Library of Alexandria
Moat
Bazaar of Baghdad
Karakas
Sneak Attack
Grea's cradle
Wasteland
City of Traitors
Juzam Djinn
Mishras Workshop
Nether Void
The Abyss
Maze of Ith
Mana Crypt
Lion's Eye Diamond
Candelabra of Tawnos
Mox Diamond
Show and Tell
Chains of Mephistopheles
Liliana of the Veil
Jace, The mind Sculptor
Tolarian Academy
Tarmogoyf
Vampiric Tutor
Misty rainforest
Scalding Tarn
Snapcaster Mage
Dark confident

quote:

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Originally posted by flam flawless:
Thing about these fakes is, if they start getting altered, they're gonna be almost impossible to tell because of the paint messing with the thickness and it could even cover the problematic areas enough to pass.

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That's what I've been worried the most about :-|

quote:

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Originally posted by LandDestroyer:
That's what I've been worried the most about :-|

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quote:

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Originally posted by LandDestroyer:
Can you describe the fakes? Like which cards were they and how could you tell? Anyone get from him where he got them?

Ya, I've seen some people on reddit post about some shocks like that. Was the only way to tell on the shocks to feel them? Have you looked at any through a jewelers loupe? I'm afraid that stuff people just often trade for and don't take out of people's perfect fits on cheaper items like shocks. Any more details you can provide?

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quote:

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Originally posted by spike777:
Yeah, I actually thought they were real at first before I de-sleeved them because they passed both the loupe and black light tests. The printing patterns are at least extremely similar, if not identical. The 'swirls/circles' are present in the colored areas, the black letters and borders are solid. Compared to a normal card under a loupe, I couldn't tell the difference. Then I picked up one of my shocks in one hand and the new ones in the other and it was obvious- the new ones felt like bicycle playing cards. If you hold them at an angle in the light, their faces also reflect light differently and seem to 'curve' near the edges (they bend light differently at the edges). But straight on they look identical in the light.

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Interesting. Especially interested you couldn't tell a different through a loupe. Did you look at the black border and see if it was solid black or had color specs in it? The fakes I've seen that were like bicycle cards had specs of color in the black border.

Ya, I don't trade for alters unless it's a cheap card that I collect and I can get it cheap (BOPs, Grim Lavas, DRS, bolts, stp, counterspells that would all probably be about it)

Of more concern is that most people aren't going to be as diligent as you were when trading for $9 shock lands. I've never used my loupe in a trade for shocks but after this last list came out I probably will

I also traded a member here about a year ago for 2 Mutavaults. Cards arrived and they both looked off from one another....one was a dirty Chinese fake and I,never would've known had I not had the other mutavault in the same deal.

quote:

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Originally posted by LandDestroyer:
Interesting. Especially interested you couldn't tell a different through a loupe. Did you look at the black border and see if it was solid black or had color specs in it? The fakes I've seen that were like bicycle cards had specs of color in the black border.

Ya, I don't trade for alters unless it's a cheap card that I collect and I can get it cheap (BOPs, Grim Lavas, DRS, bolts, stp, counterspells that would all probably be about it)

Of more concern is that most people aren't going to be as diligent as you were when trading for $9 shock lands. I've never used my loupe in a trade for shocks but after this last list came out I probably will

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You can't see swirls under a loupe on the black border, just like normal cards. Much less light passes through compared to real cards when held up to a light. Also, under a loupe the black letters are fuzzier at the edges, where real cards have very very sharp edges on the letters.

quote:

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Originally posted by spike777:
You can't see swirls under a loupe on the black border, just like normal cards. Much less light passes through compared to real cards when held up to a light. Also, under a loupe the black letters are fuzzier at the edges, where real cards have very very sharp edges on the letters.

Hope this helps.

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The fact that you couldn't tell any difference in the border gives me even more concern. In the ones I saw there were specs of color in the border whether bb or wb.

http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/spike777/media/po ssible%20fakes/0C9304B0-0C9B-473C-871F-8A9C4B27A416_zpspnrhrzb0.jpg.html

http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/spike777/media/po ssible%20fakes/E57CABFE-F847-4636-9328-F567E765CE9B_zpsewa71ssu.jpg.html

The first shows the fronts: the potential fake is the cleaner card and has a black outer line that has a swirl pattern through it, not a clean dark black line like my other duals.

The second shows the backs; the cleaner one has a TM that is slightly out of focus; the 'the gathering' is also out of focus.

Here are 1200 dpi scans:

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y401/spike777/underground%20sea%20front%201200_zpssgzxg2bv.jpg

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y401/spike777/underground%20sea%20back%201200_zpsx4487tvw.jpg

This card feels only *slightly* glossier than the presumably authentic ones I'm comparing them to.

Could someone please confirm my suspicion before I report it to ebay?

I really appreciate your help.

Edit: I also believe the circle printing pattern is slightly neater, as opposed to revised duals that are a bit more 'free form.' However, I wouldn't swear by this fact alone.

Edit 2: after getting super paranoid and re-louping all my duals, is the green line next to the black outer boarder on this taiga normal?

__________________
"Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondon

Of note, the new fakes have either black or blue core paper, the newest having blue I think though I haven't tested that for myself. As always I would not use the tear test ... HA ... HA... sadface. I'm sorry for your loss

quote:

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Originally posted by LandDestroyer:
I would look for you...but you used photobucket which my computer doesn't play well with... it loaded the first couple but not the rest. i'd be concerned about what looks like a difference in color in the black border on the back. one thing i think i forgot to mention in my post is that the black border on the back was inconsistent in the 'shade of black'. if you lined the fakes up you could see differences. the color looked richer i think than the fake sea i saw though but would need to see more pics

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What hosting site works well for you? Trying to get independent confirmation before I drop it back in the mail to the seller.

quote:

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Originally posted by spike777:
What hosting site works well for you? Trying to get independent confirmation before I drop it back in the mail to the seller.

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http://imgur.com/

quote:

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Originally posted by killakyle:
Ive come in contact with many of fakes, but the reason I posted is because it did in fact feel real, no texture difference to be found, and that is what utterly left me stunned.

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Scary. Do you have pics?

I know lots of people play proxy tournaments. Is anyone using these as just proxies and not trying to rip people? Like for casual play, proxy tournaments, cube/power cubes, EDH, etc?

I know lots of people have said if wotc did a gold/silver border power cube they'd buy it. I'm ok with trustworthy people picking up proxies as long as they stay in the hands of people who aren't going to pass them off as real. Unfortunately since WOTC hasn't provided a proper product and b/c the reserve list has led to such high secondary market valuations these counterfeiters are seeing real reasons to put more money into high quality fakes and the demand for proxies gives them capital to improve their processes which could cause more problems in the future.