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Author Topic:   Changes being made to release/rotation schedules. RIP Core Set
iccarus
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posted August 25, 2014 08:22 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for iccarus Click Here to Email iccarus Send a private message to iccarus Click to send iccarus an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mm/metamorphosis

Personally, I'm shocked it took so long for this to happen. The third set always felt tacked on, or the second set just came across as weak.

It obviously makes standard more expensive, but it will also avoid situations where a handful of decks just kind of dominate the field for the better part of a year.

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Truman
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posted August 25, 2014 08:51 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Truman Click Here to Email Truman Send a private message to Truman Click to send Truman an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I like 2 rotations a year. I like no more core set. I'm very worried about their plans to reintroduce a beginner difficulty set for new players. There isn't a beginner's set that removes bishops, rooks, and knights for people entering the world of chess, and there doesn't need to be a beginner set for Magic.
 
mm1983
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posted August 25, 2014 09:01 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for mm1983 Click Here to Email mm1983 Send a private message to mm1983 Click to send mm1983 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mm1983's Have/Want ListView mm1983's Have/Want List
This reminds me of how Lorwyn/Shadowmoor block was set up. Lorwyn and Morningtide were meant to work together and was considered as 1 block and Shadowmoor and Eventide was another block and was meant to work together but was considered as 1 full block of 4 sets in standard along with Time Spiral block being part of standard at that time. There was no core set release during Lorwyn block because core sets were only released every other year at that time before they started doing the M20** sets every year. I think many people including myself will be happy that there will no longer be a core set release every year.
 
Pail42
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posted August 25, 2014 09:22 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I'm very happy for this change. Good riddance yearly core set. Good riddance crappy small sets.

Hello return to Kamigawa... I can hope.

 
chaos021
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posted August 25, 2014 09:48 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for chaos021 Click Here to Email chaos021 Send a private message to chaos021 Click to send chaos021 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View chaos021's Have/Want ListView chaos021's Have/Want List
Yea. I think I'm going to be done with Standard then. This makes it more expensive and come at players faster now. What's the point? I like that they're getting rid of the core set. Everything else just seems bad. It's as if they really want Standard changing every 6 months. All they've done is make it easier for me to set sail with Modern now. I'm sure it's going to be super popular with tons of people, however.

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dfitzg88
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posted August 25, 2014 09:53 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for dfitzg88 Click Here to Email dfitzg88 Send a private message to dfitzg88 Click to send dfitzg88 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
This is excellent for brewers. I hate that standard gets solved so quickly and I love having a wide open field to play with.
 
chaos021
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posted August 25, 2014 10:10 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for chaos021 Click Here to Email chaos021 Send a private message to chaos021 Click to send chaos021 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View chaos021's Have/Want ListView chaos021's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by dfitzg88:
This is excellent for brewers. I hate that standard gets solved so quickly and I love having a wide open field to play with.

How so? I tend to put some home brews together myself, and it usually takes me a long time to hone them. Up to a year to iron-out kinks isn't unusual for me.

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dfitzg88
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posted August 25, 2014 10:39 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for dfitzg88 Click Here to Email dfitzg88 Send a private message to dfitzg88 Click to send dfitzg88 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by chaos021:
How so? I tend to put some home brews together myself, and it usually takes me a long time to hone them. Up to a year to iron-out kinks isn't unusual for me.


If you're brewing a standard deck for a year then you're doing something wrong. I come to fnm with a different deck at least every other week. With 2 sets to a block it means the mechanics will be tighter and, if there's a big bad wolf" in the format, it won't last long. People who have the best deck won't be able to dominate with it for 2 years. Cards will be moving out every 6 months instead of every year. That rewards people who come into a new format swinging and cuts people who just build 1 deck from top 8s to last a while.

 
chaos021
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posted August 25, 2014 11:02 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for chaos021 Click Here to Email chaos021 Send a private message to chaos021 Click to send chaos021 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View chaos021's Have/Want ListView chaos021's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by dfitzg88:
If you're brewing a standard deck for a year then you're doing something wrong. I come to fnm with a different deck at least every other week. With 2 sets to a block it means the mechanics will be tighter and, if there's a big bad wolf" in the format, it won't last long. People who have the best deck won't be able to dominate with it for 2 years. Cards will be moving out every 6 months instead of every year. That rewards people who come into a new format swinging and cuts people who just build 1 deck from top 8s to last a while.

I also play multiple decks, but that doesn't mean I just rip everything apart every week. Some things I keep and tune. Some get canned.

I think you're wrong on certain decks being able to dominate. I think the ability to dominate will just be limited to a year instead of 2 years now, and if you think this helps cut down on netdecking, then I'd like to know what's in your Kool-Aid. All they've done is shorten the time intervals. They'll have less time to choose their deck, but most people who netdeck aren't interested in trying to build something of their own or (more importantly) don't have the time. So all the people who are netdecking are more than likely going to continue netdecking. Where's the incentive to do less netdecking? In the end, as long as they're able to dominate the cycle in which they exist, it's practically the same as it is now. It's just on a quicker clock.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by chaos021 on August 25, 2014]

 
stab107
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posted August 25, 2014 11:10 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for stab107 Click Here to Email stab107 Send a private message to stab107 Click to send stab107 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Pail42:
I'm very happy for this change. Good riddance yearly core set. Good riddance crappy small sets.

Hello return to Kamigawa... I can hope.


MaRo basically confirmed on Blagatog the Even with twice as many environments a return to Kamigawa was pretty unlikely.

I like these changes in general, glad they are being made.

 
Richardo
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posted August 25, 2014 11:16 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Richardo Click Here to Email Richardo Send a private message to Richardo Click to send Richardo an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Richardo's Have/Want ListView Richardo's Have/Want List
Glad they're getting rid of the Coreset, it isn't needed, a simple product of old ever present mechanics should be enough, those little 30 card decks that stores give out for free should be enough for players to learn how to play. I like that standard stays a bot more expensive, it makes investing in it a bit more worthwhile really, I might be getting my logic or train of though wrong though :P.
The other thing I like, is the possibility of them doing another Lorwyn/Shadowmoor style block again. Also like the hinting of the possibility of going back faster to older and newer planes. And if the metagame keeps fresh, and more people buy into standard, hopefully it might also lower the price of modern, not substantially, but if we're getting an influx of newer cards each year there's always a chance for stuff that transcends formats to be printed more regularly. Also no Coreset, and augmented possibility of returning to older worlds, does kind of increase a chance of seeing some powerful reprints. hopefully it will mean we don't get the same card printed to be printed 3 times in a row, i.e, Cancel in M10, Zendikar and M11.


[Edited 1 times, lastly by Richardo on August 25, 2014]
 
mcelraca
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posted August 25, 2014 11:32 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for mcelraca Click Here to Email mcelraca Send a private message to mcelraca Click to send mcelraca an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I only skimmed...

Which i was instructed not to...


But, I liked everything i saw! woot woot for new 2 set blocks!

 
ryan2754
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posted August 25, 2014 12:25 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for ryan2754 Click Here to Email ryan2754 Send a private message to ryan2754 Click to send ryan2754 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ryan2754's Have/Want ListView ryan2754's Have/Want List
How will limited, particularly draft, work with 2 sets. 1 pack small set and 2 big set or vice versa?

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Pail42
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posted August 25, 2014 12:26 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by chaos021:
Yea. I think I'm going to be done with Standard then. This makes it more expensive and come at players faster now. What's the point? ... It's as if they really want Standard changing every 6 months.

That is one of the points. There are more in the article. You really should read it if you actually want to know "why".

This probably will make standard a bit more expensive, but I don't think by a huge margin. Two of the four releases per year are now rotating out faster (fall by 6 months and winter by 3 months), one is unchanged(spring), and one is staying longer (core by 3 months).

 
Pail42
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posted August 25, 2014 12:29 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ryan2754:
How will limited, particularly draft, work with 2 sets. 1 pack small set and 2 big set or vice versa?

I imagine: Draft one block at a time. 3 large or large+small. When the next large set comes out you stop drafting the old block. Edit, the same as it does now when only two of the sets in the block are out.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Pail42 on August 25, 2014]

 
chaos021
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posted August 25, 2014 12:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for chaos021 Click Here to Email chaos021 Send a private message to chaos021 Click to send chaos021 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View chaos021's Have/Want ListView chaos021's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Pail42:
That is one of the points. There are more in the article. You really should read it if you actually want to know "why".

This probably will make standard a bit more expensive, but I don't think by a huge margin. Two of the four releases per year are now rotating out faster (fall by 6 months and winter by 3 months), one is unchanged(spring), and one is staying longer (core by 3 months).


I did read it. My problem is that without letting us know how this affects the tourney scene (or if it will be affected at all), I'm not exactly sure if I would agree with some of these changes. Personally, I felt if they just got rid of the core block and let the 3rd set in a block go longer, that would've been fine with me. I understand why they logistically made the changes they're making, but most of those reasons were for them. What about for us? One of the questions I sent him in an email was "What happens to the limited format? How do we draft with this?" Another was about how any of this affects the tourney scene. Both of these questions have already appeared here. I can't believe they didn't think about it either. Yet, there are no answers in that article. Maybe I missed something. He seemed more focused on how this may or may not burden R&D. I don't really care how it burdens them. That's their job.

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Volcanon
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posted August 25, 2014 01:04 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Volcanon Click Here to Email Volcanon Send a private message to Volcanon Click to send Volcanon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I like everything there.

No boring coreset draft every summer? Awesome.
No terrible third sets? Mostly awesome - though when they get it right (like original Ravnica, Time Spiral, etc), it's great.
More rotation? Not quite so awesome but then again it means overly pushed or non-interactive combos won't be around quite so often.

 
Pail42
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posted August 25, 2014 01:22 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by chaos021:
I did read it. My problem is that without letting us know how this affects the tourney scene (or if it will be affected at all), I'm not exactly sure if I would agree with some of these changes.

I don't think anyone will know exactly how this effects the tourney scene until this plays out, but it seems clear there will be more deck archetypes (on average) per year.

It will be harder for a deck to remain dominant for 18 months when two blocks of strong mechanics arrive to challenge it instead of a halfhearted core set and one block. You also have stuff like Sphinx's rev only being around for 18 months instead of 24, so no single card/set/mechanic can define an archetype for as long as they currently can.

 
chaos021
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posted August 25, 2014 01:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for chaos021 Click Here to Email chaos021 Send a private message to chaos021 Click to send chaos021 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View chaos021's Have/Want ListView chaos021's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
More rotation? Not quite so awesome but then again it means overly pushed or non-interactive combos won't be around quite so often.

Which is how I feel about that in particular. I just wonder what this will do to price of Mythics and other chase rares.

EDIT: I specifically wonder if this will make Standard pricing more spiky (or spikier?).

quote:
Originally posted by Pail42:
It will be harder for a deck to remain dominant for 18 months when two blocks of strong mechanics arrive to challenge it instead of a halfhearted core set and one block. You also have stuff like Sphinx's rev only being around for 18 months instead of 24, so no single card/set/mechanic can define an archetype for as long as they currently can.

That's great and all, but I feel like that stuff is a bit overblown. Just look at the top 8s for this past year. I'd say Sphinx's Revelation was far more dominant when RTR was the new block than it has been in this last year. It feels like there have just been a ton of Devotion to Blue/Black decks in top 8 since Theros was released. So are you saying just want 6 months less of stuff like Sphinx's Revelation or just no super awesome cards at all?

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[Edited 1 times, lastly by chaos021 on August 25, 2014]

 
Pail42
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posted August 25, 2014 02:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I think this change will make pricing spikier.

I like having particular "super awesome" cards around for less time. I'm okay with there being "super awesome" cards at any given time.

edit for clarity on powerful cards.

[Edited 2 times, lastly by Pail42 on August 25, 2014]

 
slurpee
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posted August 25, 2014 02:58 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for slurpee Click Here to Email slurpee Send a private message to slurpee Click to send slurpee an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View slurpee's Trade Auction or SaleView slurpee's Trade Auction or Sale
I think there is some good and some bad. Like most things when things are changed it usually only benefits one side. Getting rid of core sounds great, but I will point out many staples of decks come from Core. What's to stop them from printing them into the blocks, nothing but most blocks have less then 10 reprints and mostly original.

What I would be concerned with is the constant changing of rotation. While this sounds great that a deck won't dominate for a longer period it also makes you the consumer have to buy more product to stay competitive. Also with rotation coming sooner, guess what your cards will be worth less money as people see the rotation and start to dump.

The question I would ask is why. Getting rid of say just the Core set and leaving everything else the same is one thing, but reducing the sets and speeding up the rotation is another. From a sales prospective you have to think that the company openly even states "Hey we are not making as much money with these core and third sets, How do we change this?"

To me you have two choices make a change to improve the quality of the cards in those sets or just Simply stop making them....

These last block have been terrible in terms of interest and sales so that only adds to this. To me the answer should have been about improving the quality not simply taking the other road of lets just stop making them...

 
Goaswerfraiejen
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posted August 25, 2014 03:27 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Goaswerfraiejen Click Here to Email Goaswerfraiejen Send a private message to Goaswerfraiejen Click to send Goaswerfraiejen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Sounds like sets will contain more reprints than ever. Oh well.

FWIW, I was pretty unhappy when "core" sets started including new cards. I'm glad that's done with, even though I'm pretty sure this change is far better for Hasbro's bottom line than it is for the game or players.

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ryan2754
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posted August 25, 2014 03:28 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for ryan2754 Click Here to Email ryan2754 Send a private message to ryan2754 Click to send ryan2754 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ryan2754's Have/Want ListView ryan2754's Have/Want List
I like the fact that in a given year, we'll have two "stories" and "cycles" and "planes" to explore. Back to Dominaria damnit!

And my question about draft - yes I understand that if the first set of a new block comes out we'll draft that, I'm saying what will the layout be after the second set of the block. Since there is no third set anymore, no BNG-JOU-THS one pack each.
My assumption would be they do SecondSet-SecondSet-FirstSet for draft so more second set in circulation since 3 months of drafts will just be of first set.
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[Edited 1 times, lastly by ryan2754 on August 25, 2014]

 
JoshSherman
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posted August 25, 2014 05:31 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for JoshSherman Click Here to Email JoshSherman Send a private message to JoshSherman Click to send JoshSherman an Instant MessageVisit JoshSherman's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View JoshSherman's Trade Auction or SaleView JoshSherman's Trade Auction or Sale
I like that sets rotate every six months but I don't like that only the past three new blocks will be included in standard. I'd have preferred they kept the rotation at two years.

Edit: Also, I will not miss the core set.

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[Edited 1 times, lastly by JoshSherman on August 25, 2014]

 
dfitzg88
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posted August 25, 2014 11:47 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for dfitzg88 Click Here to Email dfitzg88 Send a private message to dfitzg88 Click to send dfitzg88 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by chaos021:
I think you're wrong on certain decks being able to dominate. I think the ability to dominate will just be limited to a year instead of 2 years now, and if you think this helps cut down on netdecking, then I'd like to know what's in your Kool-Aid.

Mono blue devotion, mono black devotion, and mono red aggro all hinge on cards in rtr block to work (pack rat, nighveil specter, burning tree emissary, ash zealot, etc). if the linchpin card in a deck rotates 6 months after the deck even becomes a deck, it means it usually won't last a year. it'll last 6 months. this means those older cards that turn a mechanic from a new block into a monster won't exist for the entire 2 year run of the mechanic (often only 6 months)

It will incentive brewing. Now, people generally take their existing standard deck to the first PTQ after the newest release and maybe add in a card or two. With a rotation happening every 6 months, it will make it impossible to just bring your last deck.

If you somehow think this system hurts brewing, you are just mad at paying more money. I don't mind paying more for a more diverse metagame that changes more rapidly, and doesn't reward people who build 1 deck to last 2 years.

 

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