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Author Topic:   Better fake cards.
ravidell
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posted January 08, 2014 04:54 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for ravidell Click Here to Email ravidell Send a private message to ravidell Click to send ravidell an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ravidell's Have/Want ListView ravidell's Have/Want List
[url=http://polishtamales.tumblr.com/post/72642482887][/url]

I was just taking to a few dealer friends the other day about this, and then this pops up. This is crazy.

 
Isawa
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posted January 08, 2014 05:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Isawa Click Here to Email Isawa Send a private message to Isawa Click to send Isawa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I was waiting for someone to post this. Has anyone actually seen any of these in person? If so, is the printing pattern the same as authentic magic cards?
 
jbark
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posted January 08, 2014 06:24 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for jbark Click Here to Email jbark Send a private message to jbark Click to send jbark an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View jbark's Have/Want ListView jbark's Have/Want List
I actually might have purchased a set of wooded foothills assuming they were real off eBay. The guy had no feedback and was from the US. Also had no clue they were fake and after refunding me he put proxy in the descriptions. There is also another person selling with 0 feedback selling similar sets as proxies.

The cards do not pass the bend test and are very glossy. The printing does seem a little off. Also the corners are a little more rounded. Don't know if the ones I got were the same but as stated, if played in a sleeve its going to be hard to tell.

 
Hooskdaddy
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posted January 08, 2014 06:33 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Hooskdaddy Click Here to Email Hooskdaddy Send a private message to Hooskdaddy Click to send Hooskdaddy an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Yeah weve been talking about this on facebook the last few days. The fakes are really good with just some minor exceptions that if you arent looking for them you wouldnt be able to tell much difference.

Im assuming wizards knows about them and one of the reasons theyve decided to change stuff starting with m15.

Either way, a bit scary

 
majicman
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posted January 08, 2014 07:13 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for majicman Click Here to Email majicman Send a private message to majicman Click to send majicman an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I saw this on Facebook and glad I don't own any goyfs or purchased singles of new stuff as of late.

The spacing is off on the Goyf wording and sure the typeset will fix this.

Even the Chinese think Magic is printed money.

Buyer Beware!

Greg

 
gaeacradle
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posted January 08, 2014 07:19 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for gaeacradle Click Here to Email gaeacradle Send a private message to gaeacradle Click to send gaeacradle an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View gaeacradle's Have/Want ListView gaeacradle's Have/Want List
http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1uquc2/concerning_china_fakes_they_are_absolutely/?sort=new

Someone who has a few of them posted a video and some comments about them being detectable...for now.

 
chaos021
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posted January 08, 2014 11:58 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for chaos021 Click Here to Email chaos021 Send a private message to chaos021 Click to send chaos021 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View chaos021's Have/Want ListView chaos021's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Hooskdaddy:
Either way, a bit scary

And a long time coming. People keep trying to 1-up each other by making better quality fakes. I remember there were a few people at a Regionals I went to way back when that showed off their fakes next to the real deal. A lot of people had a hard time telling. Some of them even had experience finding fake power. The guys showing them off were so proud. Just imagine if they were serious *******s. I'm somewhat grateful that most of these counterfeiters are just too lazy to put any effort into it.

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Guie
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posted January 09, 2014 06:11 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Guie Click Here to Email Guie Send a private message to Guie Click to send Guie an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Guie's Have/Want ListView Guie's Have/Want List
I'm just getting back into magic after 10 years away and am new to the forum. Eternal formats are my main interest. I am only interested in value so much that I don't want to invest thousands of dollars in duals, forces, etc. only to see them worth pennies. This terrifies me. My obsessive nature doesn't help matters.

Most discussion on other sites regarding these forgeries devolved into reserve list criticism. Yet I looked through all those photos and noticed 4 cards Wizards is prohibited from reprinting (3 Duals and Intuition).

This company (not some dude) is forging shock lands, sol rings, and full art basics.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Guie on January 09, 2014]

 
James_Hetfield2
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posted January 09, 2014 06:30 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for James_Hetfield2 Click Here to Email James_Hetfield2 Send a private message to James_Hetfield2 Click to send James_Hetfield2 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I always though counterfeits could be real trouble for the collectible side of Magic.

When people are paying thousands of dollars for pieces of cardboard, that aren't "that" hard to reproduce, its certainly an interesting topic.

Then again people have probably been predicting the same thing for Baseball cards for 70 years and it hasn't happened yet.

Walking the counterfeit shops in China is pretty fun. They have everything from Rolexs, Ray Bans, NFL jerseys, Prada/LV purses, electronics, etc. I saw Pokemon cards, but no MTG last time I was there.

 
MagicPatty
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posted January 09, 2014 07:46 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for MagicPatty Click Here to Email MagicPatty Send a private message to MagicPatty Click to send MagicPatty an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Theoretically, if these proxies are THAT good, couldn't you just buy them and use them in tournaments anyway?

I mean, if they are that hard to differentiate from real cards, no one would know right?

...not that I condone this... I really don't play any constructed anyway

 
Guie
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posted January 09, 2014 08:17 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Guie Click Here to Email Guie Send a private message to Guie Click to send Guie an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Guie's Have/Want ListView Guie's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by MagicPatty:
Theoretically, if these proxies are THAT good, couldn't you just buy them and use them in tournaments anyway?

I mean, if they are that hard to differentiate from real cards, no one would know right?

...not that I condone this... I really don't play any constructed anyway


Someone can and will.... People will do it and some will argue in favor of it, but I don't think the majority of these purchases are done for "the love of the game" so to speak. The "I want to build a $40 modern deck" crowd is in the minority and the majority is buying these cards to make money illegally.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Guie on January 09, 2014]

 
Goaswerfraiejen
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posted January 09, 2014 04:43 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Goaswerfraiejen Click Here to Email Goaswerfraiejen Send a private message to Goaswerfraiejen Click to send Goaswerfraiejen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MagicPatty:
Theoretically, if these proxies are THAT good, couldn't you just buy them and use them in tournaments anyway?

I mean, if they are that hard to differentiate from real cards, no one would know right?



That's right. No judge is going to rip your Tundra in half to make sure it's real. 'Course, the real worry isn't really people buying high-quality fakes on the cheap and then maliciously using them in tournaments. Rather, it's that the fakes are good enough that that nobody is the wiser, which effectively gives the forgers a license to print (lots of) money.

I don't know much about printing, but I was always surprised that MTG cards weren't forged at an alarming rate. It's a much safer (and presumably easier) proposition than forging money, after all. It seemed unbelievable that they were too hard to forge well. Seems like they aren't.

In the end, I can't really do anything but shrug. It harms Wizards (in the sense that they lose out on money they could have made from reprints and breaking the reserved list), but if they're of a quality that makes them virtually indiscernible from real cards (save when ripped), then it doesn't really harm the players. And it doesn't really harm the collectors either. Although perhaps the hoarders suffer some small harm if it drives prices down significantly (which I wouldn't mind, but seems unlikely).

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mtglover
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posted January 09, 2014 07:57 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for mtglover Click Here to Email mtglover Send a private message to mtglover Click to send mtglover an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mtglover's Have/Want ListView mtglover's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:

That's right. No judge is going to rip your Tundra in half to make sure it's real. 'Course, the real worry isn't really people buying high-quality fakes on the cheap and then maliciously using them in tournaments. Rather, it's that the fakes are good enough that that nobody is the wiser, which effectively gives the forgers a license to print (lots of) money.

I don't know much about printing, but I was always surprised that MTG cards weren't forged at an alarming rate. It's a much safer (and presumably easier) proposition than forging money, after all. It seemed unbelievable that they were too hard to forge well. Seems like they aren't.

In the end, I can't really do anything but shrug. It harms Wizards (in the sense that they lose out on money they could have made from reprints and breaking the reserved list), but if they're of a quality that makes them virtually indiscernible from real cards (save when ripped), then it doesn't really harm the players. And it doesn't really harm the collectors either. Although perhaps the hoarders suffer some small harm if it drives prices down significantly (which I wouldn't mind, but seems unlikely).


Are you kidding? If they are very hard to distinguish from real cards and the fake stuff catches on, people will start buying the fake cards instead of the real ones. Who needs to buy packs or boxes when you can buy the all the cards you need at bargain price? Eventually, magic card shop will close down and Wizards will stop making magic cards.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by mtglover on January 09, 2014]

 
dfitzg88
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posted January 09, 2014 09:09 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for dfitzg88 Click Here to Email dfitzg88 Send a private message to dfitzg88 Click to send dfitzg88 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Is this why M15 rares and mythics are getting an upgrade?

If so, and if counterfeits become too widespread, wizards could very well drop support for older formats in the future to distance themselves from the issue.

 
Goaswerfraiejen
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posted January 10, 2014 08:08 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Goaswerfraiejen Click Here to Email Goaswerfraiejen Send a private message to Goaswerfraiejen Click to send Goaswerfraiejen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mtglover:
Are you kidding? If they are very hard to distinguish from real cards and the fake stuff catches on, people will start buying the fake cards instead of the real ones. Who needs to buy packs or boxes when you can buy the all the cards you need at bargain price? Eventually, magic card shop will close down and Wizards will stop making magic cards.

Which part of my post are you referring to?

Again, I'll point out that if the forgeries are that good, then there's no reason to admit to the fact that they are forgeries, or to sell them at substantially lower prices.

Wizards is currently taking measures to stay ahead of counterfeiters. If we assume that they'll succeed (at least for a time), that means that new products will be safe (for a time). It is older products--which tend to be more valuable anyway--which aren't safe. But Wizards doesn't make money from (most of) those older products anymore anyway. In large part, this is because the Reserved List prevents them from reprinting them.

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spike777
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posted January 10, 2014 02:58 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for spike777 Click Here to Email spike777 Send a private message to spike777 Click to send spike777 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Awareness of these fakes is actually what triggered me to sell 80% of my legacy collection this coming weekend. Kind of stupid to have all of your excess money tied up in cardboard that could become worthless virtually overnight. Can't buy the future wife food with $2 Savannah's.

I realize that it was stupid all along, whether there were fakes or not, but it took a wake-up call like this for me to see it.

 
revenger
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posted January 10, 2014 03:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for revenger Click Here to Email revenger Click to send revenger an Instant MessageVisit revenger's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
How about every card that is on the reserved list be sent in to Wizards, for a fraction of the cost of their value, 10% or whatever, and once they have all the cards- set up for a duration of time, then start sending them all out again is a special pack or something. Think of the money they can make off these packs.

Just thinking out loud...

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majicman
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posted January 10, 2014 04:30 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for majicman Click Here to Email majicman Click to send majicman an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by revenger:
How about every card that is on the reserved list be sent in to Wizards, for a fraction of the cost of their value, 10% or whatever, and once they have all the cards- set up for a duration of time, then start sending them all out again is a special pack or something. Think of the money they can make off these packs.

Just thinking out loud...



Call it Zendikar 2 - Return of the Treasures


 
majicman
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posted January 10, 2014 04:33 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for majicman Click Here to Email majicman Click to send majicman an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by spike777:
Awareness of these fakes is actually what triggered me to sell 80% of my legacy collection this coming weekend. Kind of stupid to have all of your excess money tied up in cardboard that could become worthless virtually overnight. Can't buy the future wife food with $2 Savannah's.

I realize that it was stupid all along, whether there were fakes or not, but it took a wake-up call like this for me to see it.


Well, you must do what you have to do. I wouldn't get excited over dumping a collection. My thought has always been, hedge your bets and play/collect the game for free (buy low enough where you get your money back and have cardboard for free). It will not go poof overnight, but you better bet people will take advantage of those who panic, just like the stock market.

Good luck!

 
nderdog
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posted January 10, 2014 04:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for nderdog Click Here to Email nderdog Send a private message to nderdog Click to send nderdog an Instant MessageVisit nderdog's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View nderdog's Have/Want ListView nderdog's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by revenger:
How about every card that is on the reserved list be sent in to Wizards, for a fraction of the cost of their value, 10% or whatever, and once they have all the cards- set up for a duration of time, then start sending them all out again is a special pack or something. Think of the money they can make off these packs.

Just thinking out loud...


So, they'll have like 12 cards from people who don't know real values, because no one else would be stupid enough to sell them for so little?

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Timmyhill
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posted January 10, 2014 04:39 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Timmyhill Click Here to Email Timmyhill Send a private message to Timmyhill Click to send Timmyhill an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Call it Zendikar 2 - Return of the Treasures :

This is the best idea I've heard.

Maybe instead of trading the cards in wizards simply buys the cards back at whatever price would be fair.

They could then charge a bit of a premium for however they decide to sell it back in a new sealed product.

I just wonder how long it will be till the halo foil thing can be fake.

 
Volcanon
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posted January 10, 2014 05:34 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Volcanon Click Here to Email Volcanon Send a private message to Volcanon Click to send Volcanon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
They've apparently been busted by the police now.
 
Louisboy
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posted January 10, 2014 06:05 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Louisboy Click Here to Email Louisboy Send a private message to Louisboy Click to send Louisboy an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
They've apparently been busted by the police now.

link?

 
spike777
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posted January 10, 2014 08:12 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for spike777 Click Here to Email spike777 Send a private message to spike777 Click to send spike777 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by majicman:
Well, you must do what you have to do. I wouldn't get excited over dumping a collection. My thought has always been, hedge your bets and play/collect the game for free (buy low enough where you get your money back and have cardboard for free). It will not go poof overnight, but you better bet people will take advantage of those who panic, just like the stock market.

Good luck!


Yeah, I also don't play much anymore. I'll finally get to build lands and the cards that I've had rotting in my binder for a few years will get to see some play. Plus, I've always ascribed to 'buy low, sell high' as well, so I shouldn't be losing anything. I have a bit of a card buying addition and have been lucky not to lose my shirt in a fire or robbery or something else unforeseen. This will help me sleep a little easier at night.

 
slurpee
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posted January 10, 2014 08:41 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for slurpee Click Here to Email slurpee Send a private message to slurpee Click to send slurpee an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View slurpee's Trade Auction or SaleView slurpee's Trade Auction or Sale
http://abcnews.go.com/International/counterfeit-condom -ring-busted-millions-contraceptives-confiscated/story?id=19183432

Oh wait...

here it is: http://imgur.com/o8f8Yti

[Edited 1 times, lastly by slurpee on January 10, 2014]

 

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