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Author Topic:   Fake Foils on Ebay
A1phaMale
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posted September 04, 2013 09:45 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for A1phaMale Click Here to Email A1phaMale Send a private message to A1phaMale Click to send A1phaMale an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View A1phaMale's Have/Want ListView A1phaMale's Have/Want List
Thought I would link this in case no-one saw this.... It appears that high quality fake foils are being thrown on Ebay. This includes old fetches, dark rituals, 7th wraths and birds, etc. I think the cards are real but were modified to look foil. I would be interested in hearing from some members of the MOTL community who are experts on fakes. Links are below:

Example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Playset-4-foil-Dark-Ritual-Mercadian-Masques-/300952327402?nma=true&si=OaOD8hqczahqIrL%252FBkI2t%252Fd0%252BI4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2 557#ht_353wt_1149

MTG Salvation Thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=529446&page=4

 
coasterdude84
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posted September 04, 2013 12:22 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for coasterdude84 Click Here to Email coasterdude84 Send a private message to coasterdude84 Click to send coasterdude84 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I can't get to the Sally link because I'm at work, but what exactly makes you say they're fakes?
 
A1phaMale
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posted September 04, 2013 01:00 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for A1phaMale Click Here to Email A1phaMale Send a private message to A1phaMale Click to send A1phaMale an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View A1phaMale's Have/Want ListView A1phaMale's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by coasterdude84:
I can't get to the Sally link because I'm at work, but what exactly makes you say they're fakes?

A member had posted photos of the cards he received versus ones he already owned and there were some tell-tell differences between the two. You can also see other auctions from that particular Ebay seller, and you will notice that there are subtle differences in his foils versus others. I'm fairly certain they are high quality fakes.

 
slurpee
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posted September 04, 2013 01:23 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for slurpee Click Here to Email slurpee Send a private message to slurpee Click to send slurpee an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View slurpee's Trade Auction or SaleView slurpee's Trade Auction or Sale
I have to admit, they do look very real, not sure if those are the actual scans of what you receive.

I would also bet they feel different to.

 
ardeay
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posted September 05, 2013 06:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for ardeay Send a private message to ardeay Click to send ardeay an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ardeay's Have/Want ListView ardeay's Have/Want List
Foils are VERY EASY to counterfeit and have look like the real thing. I wouldn't buy any foil on ebay, only IRL. Even in IRL it's hard to tell unless you have a comparison with you. Check this apathy house post if you haven't read it before: http://www.apathyhouse.com/fake/

http://www.ebay.com/sch/magic-player/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

[Edited 2 times, lastly by ardeay on September 05, 2013]

 
Pail42
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posted September 05, 2013 07:05 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Great article. I've heard all those tests mentioned here but never explained well.

http://www.apathyhouse.com/fake/page34.php "They are not very common because they require more skill to produce"

So are they harder to produce, but if you have the equipment easier to make look convincing? At a glance it appears your link disagrees with you.

 
JayC
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posted September 05, 2013 11:48 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for JayC Click Here to Email JayC Send a private message to JayC Click to send JayC an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Is anyone reporting this?
 
coasterdude84
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posted September 06, 2013 07:51 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for coasterdude84 Click Here to Email coasterdude84 Send a private message to coasterdude84 Click to send coasterdude84 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ardeay:
Foils are VERY EASY to counterfeit and have look like the real thing. I wouldn't buy any foil on ebay, only IRL. Even in IRL it's hard to tell unless you have a comparison with you.

Really? I've never come across a counterfeit foil were it wasn't immediately apparent to anyone who's ever seen a Magic card that it was fake. Foils are one of the things I do trust off of ebay. I still can't get to the Sally link, but if those are indeed fakes, they're the best I've ever seen.

If those were regular versions of cards modified to feel foil, there would be some noticeable issues right away. First, a foil card has a metallic finish, on top of which is a laminate layer, and on top of that is the actual card ink. If these were normal versions modified to look foil, there'd be an extra layer on top of the ink, which should be pretty apparent. However, 7th edition was natively white-bordered, so he would have also had to ink the borders as well, which would be pretty ballsy. Or, if they peeled an old foil and printed the card on top of that, it should also be obvious, much like a bad P9 fake.

 
headumpire
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posted September 06, 2013 06:28 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for headumpire Click Here to Email headumpire Send a private message to headumpire Click to send headumpire an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
He got good feedback from all of the foils he sold... and some of these look to be experienced buyers. Why do you think they are fake?
 
caquaa
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posted September 07, 2013 03:46 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by headumpire:
He got good feedback from all of the foils he sold... and some of these look to be experienced buyers. Why do you think they are fake?

The description and the pic of the cards from salvation makes them appear fake. The border background on the rituals is off. There is described a gloss over the test box and the art, which doesn't sound typical.

 
sm4llz
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posted September 07, 2013 07:13 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for sm4llz Click Here to Email sm4llz Send a private message to sm4llz Click to send sm4llz an Instant MessageVisit sm4llz's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View sm4llz's Have/Want ListView sm4llz's Have/Want List
i think there is a similar thread on mtgsalvation right now with additional details..

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=529446


 
ardeay
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posted September 07, 2013 08:40 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for ardeay Send a private message to ardeay Click to send ardeay an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ardeay's Have/Want ListView ardeay's Have/Want List
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EBWiP027-gU&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DEBWiP027-gU

They are printing over real cards. This video does not show the counterfeiter process, but it shows the first step.

A person schooled in the print industry or someone devoted to learn only needs access to a high end printer to pull it off.

 
hammr7
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posted September 09, 2013 09:21 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for hammr7 Click Here to Email hammr7 Send a private message to hammr7 Click to send hammr7 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Counterfeits have always been a concern.

With paper currency, the problem is always getting the correct paper. The inking can often be mimicked very well, but it is the base paper that is so hard to match. For US currency, even the security strips can be threaded in and made to look real. But the best counterfeiters have to use regular paper. So if you put counterfeit currency in a washing machine, it will dissolve. Real currency will easily survive, since the "paper" is actually a kind of cloth.

With Magic cards, foils give "artists" the perfect base card to start from. Clean the foil ink and you have a real blank foil. De-laminate the foil layer and you have a real blank card.

At this point, none of the tests that focus on the card stock will fail. For example, the bend test and light test will always pass. And at this point, if you counterfeit an expensive card, and if you do it well, it will probably be tournament legal. Sadly, this might be the only concern a lot of players will care about.

Legally, if you sell these 'replica" cards as real, that is another problem. Depending upon local laws, if one or more sales pass a certain dollar threshold (usually $250 to $800, at most) you technically enter felony status.

In most states (and countries) trying to pass off a replica(the nicest possible interpretation) as real is a crime. The fact that the card stock is real doesn't matter. If the art of the original card has been replaced by protected art that makes the card more valuable, the card is no longer original.

There are ways to identify re-inked cards, but they are a bit more involved. Most will involve differences in the print methods, differences in the inks used, and / or the impact of the preparation and reprinting on the card, especially at the edges. And as the Apathyhouse article notes, you don't need to worry about the inexpensive cards, or many of the cards in less than NrMt condition.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by hammr7 on September 09, 2013]

 
headumpire
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posted September 09, 2013 12:02 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for headumpire Click Here to Email headumpire Send a private message to headumpire Click to send headumpire an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Just get a jeweler's loupe($1-3 on ebay) and use it on anything that doesn't seem right. The print pattern is easy to recognize. No one has been able to fake the print pattern right?
 
hammr7
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posted September 09, 2013 05:03 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for hammr7 Click Here to Email hammr7 Send a private message to hammr7 Click to send hammr7 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
The dot pattern requires a certain type of professional equipment, which renders color in four separate colors which are overlaid to produce the final artwork. Not saying it can't ever be duplicated, but it won't be easy or common.
 
AGO
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posted September 09, 2013 06:13 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for AGO Click Here to Email AGO Send a private message to AGO Click to send AGO an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View AGO's Trade Auction or SaleView AGO's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by headumpire:
Just get a jeweler's loupe($1-3 on ebay) and use it on anything that doesn't seem right. The print pattern is easy to recognize. No one has been able to fake the print pattern right?

If they are buying the equipment and materials to fake it this good I wouldn't worry to much about it.

 

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