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Author Topic:   New Magic Store
Truman
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posted December 17, 2012 08:53 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Truman Click Here to Email Truman Send a private message to Truman Click to send Truman an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Truman's Have/Want ListView Truman's Have/Want List
Here's the deal: I'm seriously thinking about trying to open a games store in my old college town. The student population is in excess of 12,000 during the school year, and I know of some permanent residents that would patronize the store year round. The store would focus on Magic the Gathering singles and sealed product. There would be no competition for the singles market, although there is another store that currently sells sealed product. This store is also where FNM's are run though, although the actual event happens on campus as the store has no play space. This store also sells most other products you'd expect in a games store: board games, RPG books, Mini's, etc. There is also another store in town that sells comics so opportunity there is limited.

As my background is in the IT and technical fields, not business, I'm at a loss as to what I need to do before I make a decision as to whether or not this would be a good idea. My questions for everyone are as follows:

I know I need to do some market research, but how and what?

What is the wholesale price of a box of MTG, so I could run profit margin and income calculations?

How much sq. footage do I need to be looking for in a retail location, assuming I want to have ample play space for any and all product lines I may decide to carry?

What questions am I not asking that I need to consider?


Any help, suggestions, assistance, guidance, or anything else anyone wants to say would be greatly appreciated.

 
MasterWolf
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posted December 17, 2012 10:39 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for MasterWolf Click Here to Email MasterWolf Send a private message to MasterWolf Click to send MasterWolf an Instant MessageVisit MasterWolf's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View MasterWolf's Have/Want ListView MasterWolf's Have/Want List
Magic boxes are like $77. You won't be able to stay afloat on just buying and selling packs.
 
OGB
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posted December 17, 2012 10:53 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for OGB Click Here to Email OGB Send a private message to OGB Click to send OGB an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
You could try getting a business partner who has more experience in retail.

Edit: it also seems like you are getting waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of yourself. If you don't even know that you have a market for this, there's no reason to start thinking about square footage and margin analysis.

Why do you want to open this game store? Do you see opportunity in your town? How many people play magic in your town? How many people does the other store get at FNM? How will you operate differently? How will you build a customer base? How much initial capital do you have? Will you be working at this full time?

There Are people on these forums who run successful magic businesses whether it be store or dealer based. I'm not sure your questions are indicative of a foundation of knowledge to get your project off the ground, hence my suggestion to find someone with a business background.

__________________
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[Edited 1 times, lastly by OGB on December 17, 2012]

 
paris
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posted December 17, 2012 11:04 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for paris Click Here to Email paris Send a private message to paris Click to send paris an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
If your store is selling singles too, maybe you could get some supplemental income selling stuff online too. The two local game stores here also have nice websites set up where you can view their inventory to either order online, or to show up at the store to buy.
 
Speed Demon
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posted December 17, 2012 11:31 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Speed Demon Click Here to Email Speed Demon Send a private message to Speed Demon Click to send Speed Demon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
IMO, If you're not selling singles, there is zero way you're going to stay afloat.

I can't think of a single store that is profitable just by selling packs/boxes.

 
JayC
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posted December 17, 2012 12:15 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for JayC Click Here to Email JayC Send a private message to JayC Click to send JayC an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View JayC's Have/Want ListView JayC's Have/Want List
It's a horrible business with terrible margins.

Your customer base are little kids dependent on their moms or college kids... Dependent on their moms or trash jobs while they study.

I highly suggest you avoid this plan.

 
mysticknight
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posted December 17, 2012 01:02 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for mysticknight Click Here to Email mysticknight Send a private message to mysticknight Click to send mysticknight an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mysticknight's Have/Want ListView mysticknight's Have/Want List
In my little college town a small shop works out well. there are 3 places to buy sealed product and some singles but the store I frequent has yugioh and mtg tourneys weekly, FNM and standard twice weekly. This is the customer base which will support your singles. A base of about 100 keeps the business open and on its feet and if you are nice your customers will likely shop nowhere else. I reccomend 800-1000 sq ft(pay ~50c sq ft) and get some plastic fold out tables and chairs, they are cheap. Wizards will hook you up with a wholesale account so planning is your best strategy. Be sure to do prerelease events, block FNM and the occasional chaos draft. Most magic players in our town are 19-21 with some of us 30++...the older teenagers 16-20 will play yugioh in addition to magic and this will be a nice supplement to your store.
 
slurpee
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posted December 17, 2012 01:34 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for slurpee Click Here to Email slurpee Send a private message to slurpee Click to send slurpee an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View slurpee's Trade Auction or SaleView slurpee's Trade Auction or Sale
Ask yourself a few questions:

Are you doing this to make money or to love what you are doing.

If you don't make any money will you still love what you are doing.

How much money do you need to bring home a month 2-3k? (24-36k a year)

In my opinion you are not getting out of monthly expenses for less then 2-3k a month assuming you have zero staff. Did you want to work M-Sat sometimes till the wee hours...by yourself?

So you are looking at needing a profit of a Min of 48k a year. A profit, not sales. Even if you buy and sell boxes and packs at say 4.00 a piece a pack you will need to sell 89k magic packs or 2477 boxes of cards or 7 boxes a day assuming you are open 365

This is why a lot of stores sell lots of other things, comics, games, and singles as you could make more money in the private sector and just show up and play FNM when you want.

 
harbingerofthevoid
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posted December 17, 2012 03:07 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for harbingerofthevoid Click Here to Email harbingerofthevoid Send a private message to harbingerofthevoid Click to send harbingerofthevoid an Instant MessageVisit harbingerofthevoid's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View harbingerofthevoid's Have/Want ListView harbingerofthevoid's Have/Want List
Not to add to the downer side of it but I would think if you don't have 50-100k to basically lose in your first year, it's going to be rough going at it alone.

And, if you're a player, it's going to suck any and all fun out of the game for you owning a MtG related business.

Had friends that both these happened rather quickly to.

 
Truman
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posted December 17, 2012 03:39 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Truman Click Here to Email Truman Send a private message to Truman Click to send Truman an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Truman's Have/Want ListView Truman's Have/Want List
First off, thanks for all the replies. As I stated before I don't have a business background, so any and every suggestion/tip/hint/warning is valuable.

Second, I guess I should flesh out the details a bit to get the most accurate and useful responses:

The town in question has one game store that sells only sealed product and "runs" only FNM in so far as the people that actually run the tournament report it through said store.

My store would sell all things Magic: Packs, Boxes, Singles, Supplies, anything else that I can sell for a profit. I would most likely carry Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, Warhammer and its ilk, Clix, and other games I can make money on, although only as sealed product (unless the demand for singles justifies the added inventory/time). I would be running events any and every time I could. Initial plan would be to run FNM (Draft), weekly standard, weekly commander, weekly sealed, and weekly X where X = the current non-standard season format, defaulting to legacy when it's standard season. In addition, I would have no issues selling online or setting up an online store, as the tech background I have would make it pretty simple.

This store would have to profit ~$1000 a month with me being the sole proprietor, as my wife makes a fairly decent salary in her profession.

I would be opening this store because I love games and I've always wanted to own my own business.

The baseline population of the town in question is ~22,000, adding 12,800 college students during the school year. In addition, it would be the only location to buy singles for literally hours to the north, east, and west. The market in the area just seems untapped to me. Close to 13,000 college students should be able to provide a large enough customer base on its own, and expanding the availability of sanctioned events should increase interest, at least that's the way it seems to me.

I know I have a lot of research that needs to be done, and this isn't something I'm thinking about doing in the next 6 months, and it may seem that I'm getting ahead of myself in certain areas. The reason for that is I can only explore what I can think to explore, hence the asking for help and opinions from others.

Thanks again for everything so far.

 
Lord Crovax
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posted December 17, 2012 04:18 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Lord Crovax Click Here to Email Lord Crovax Send a private message to Lord Crovax Click to send Lord Crovax an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Biggest suggestion if your serious, find a serious business partner, someone who knows the market inside and out, bonus points if they are Judge certified and/or love sorting cards by the 10's of thousands.

__________________
I shall have the souls of all who defy me. "Lord Crovax"

 
mm1983
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posted December 17, 2012 06:03 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for mm1983 Click Here to Email mm1983 Send a private message to mm1983 Click to send mm1983 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mm1983's Have/Want ListView mm1983's Have/Want List
I don't own a store but I do sell on ebay. My friend and I started out by selling commons and uncommons from our boxes of cards that would have otherwise got sold off as bulk. Now we do $3-4k in sales in each month that we list commons and uncommons on ebay which is about 4 times a year right now. This kind of thing takes hours of work and constant price researching. I don't do this for a job. I do it to keep up with the gaming habit because I still enjoy the game but I also want to increase my collection value.
 
dfitzg88
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posted December 18, 2012 03:58 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for dfitzg88 Click Here to Email dfitzg88 Send a private message to dfitzg88 Click to send dfitzg88 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View dfitzg88's Trade Auction or SaleView dfitzg88's Trade Auction or Sale
estimate or research total monthly expenses on business properties in the area, including utilities.

you'll need to pick up multiple weekly gaming tournaments in order to support ANY business. most tcg stores also sell comics or have video games or computers with internet access to provide supplemental income. you'll at least need judges and TOs for any tcg you support.

expenses add up. if you can't cover them with gaming income, you won't stay afloat without supplemental income.

consider what the community NEEDS above and beyond what the most visited LGS is providing, and whether or not it's worth putting your money into. often after someone makes a business plan, they find out their average income is going to be below minimum wage, which is why more stores don't pop up overnight.

gl and i hope you can service your community and enjoy your time doing so.

 
Piercec
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posted December 20, 2012 02:25 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Piercec Click Here to Email Piercec Send a private message to Piercec Click to send Piercec an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Piercec's Have/Want ListView Piercec's Have/Want List
There are some general suggestions in here, but I would SERIOUSLY recommend that you speak to a general manager or store owner from another card store.

There is nothing like experience and there are a million local card stores which you could probably contact. Speak to people actually doing what you want to do, and understadn their difficulties. Your not a direct competitor with them so there is little reason why they shouldn't share information with you.


Also this: [url=http://www.sba.gov/][/url]; it seems stupid but get your free gov money if you can & also do the business plan template and other nuts and bolts. It may seem like a silly exercise but putting your costs, income, and business details down on paper actually provide an excellent platform for review.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Piercec on December 20, 2012]

 
Zeckk
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posted December 20, 2012 02:47 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Zeckk Click Here to Email Zeckk Send a private message to Zeckk Click to send Zeckk an Instant MessageVisit Zeckk's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Zeckk's Have/Want ListView Zeckk's Have/Want List
Selling comic books is the easiest way to guarantee monthly income, and there's actually a large overlap between MTG and comics. The LGS I go to in Vegas essentially meets their overhead with just the comic book revenue, and the tabletop/card game stuff is just gravy.

But take that with a grain of salt, considering the fact that I'm talking about a town with a 1mil population.

 
JayC
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posted December 21, 2012 02:15 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for JayC Click Here to Email JayC Send a private message to JayC Click to send JayC an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View JayC's Have/Want ListView JayC's Have/Want List
The town is just so small it's hard to imagine...

My city, about 250,000 people can only support 1 prosperous shop, and we have a significant junior college and a true University just 10 minutes south of us in the city below.

When I hear you have just 22k in your town... I have to wonder... scary stuff man. Could be great, tho.

 
MTDetermine
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posted December 22, 2012 06:33 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for MTDetermine Click Here to Email MTDetermine Send a private message to MTDetermine Click to send MTDetermine an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by harbingerofthevoid:
Not to add to the downer side of it but I would think if you don't have 50-100k to basically lose in your first year, it's going to be rough going at it alone.

And, if you're a player, it's going to suck any and all fun out of the game for you owning a MtG related business.

Had friends that both these happened rather quickly to.


I can testify to the above. Share you 2 real stories.

First, I used to play MTG when I reentered the game in 2007. But by 2009, I was trading so much that I no longer have any time to play the game. Now, I do not play at all. I only have time to work and trade.

Second, my friend opened the only MTG shop in a second-tier China city. He is an avid gamer. After he opened the shop, he continued to focus on playing as opposed to managing the business. Initially, his regulars introduced new players and his shop had a steady crowd.

However, he concentrated on playing, and was biased as a judge (he was the only judge in the entire city), and want to win the drafts/tourneys that he was organising!! His mismanagement and lack of management worsened when he picked up MTGO as its the only place where he can play 24hrs/day (his city does not have many players in the first place and).

Sad Results:
1) His regulars stopped coming, new players quitted, and his shop is in the dumps. A mutual friend who played MTG for many years quitted the game in utter disgust. I wrote off a batch of cards that I let him sell on consignment.
2) Shortly after he opened the shop, he knew a girl who came to a shop and they got married. After a number of months, she got so disgusted with his mismanagement/lack of management that she divorced him.....SERIOUS!!!

 
Truman
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posted December 24, 2012 04:55 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Truman Click Here to Email Truman Send a private message to Truman Click to send Truman an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Truman's Have/Want ListView Truman's Have/Want List
Again thanks for all the ideas/suggestions/warnings. To address a few of the things brought up:

First and foremost, I understand that this would need to be a business and not a place where I play cards. Honestly, about the extent of my playing anymore is an occasional draft, EDH with friends, and a casual multiplayer game when my college friends get together. The last time I played in an actual sanctioned constructed event was in March. I went to GP Minneapolis in May and spent all my time working vendors and making trades with the public. I'm finding that I'm much more a collector now than I am a player, and I'd have no trouble putting my collection into the case to sell because I like the thrill of finding and acquiring cards.

I looked into the SBA.gov site and started filling out the business plan section. The goals and objectives are pretty straight forward. The numbers it asks for in regards to estimated cash flow and such are still beyond me but I'm working on it.

As for other product lines, comics are out as there's an established and supported store that has a loyal following. I'd carry board games, other card games, and mini's such as Warhammer, 40k, and whatever the customer base wanted. Since I'm an avid model railroader, I'm planning on looking into model trains as an additional source of income, but the internet has been... unkind to model railroad shops. I would be fine having a couple computers to rent time on. Video games scare me a bit, as the overhead required, especially in the used game market, seems like a big risk.

I am planning on speaking to the local store owners about their knowledge and experience in the matter, and hopefully they can give me more information in the matter.

Keep the info coming, the more I get now the fewer surprises down the road.

 
dhamil3
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posted December 24, 2012 09:28 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for dhamil3 Click Here to Email dhamil3 Send a private message to dhamil3 Click to send dhamil3 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Plan to have enough cash on hand to completely stock your store, money for comic stock for a year, pay all the utilities and rent, pay for the employee(s) that are going to manage the store. Here's the kick in the balls, you have to have two years worth of money.
It takes anywhere from 18-24 months to establish a new retail store. You'll know if it's sink or swim at the end of that time. Hopefully, you'll be doing gangbusters and won't need all the equity, but the biggest problem new businesses have is having the money to float until it takes off. That's why a lot of businesses fail within that time frame. They simply don't have the money to survive.
If you do the math, you'll probably need something in the range of six figures. The numbers are up to you. Bust ass and hustle for the start up money. Sell jambalaya plates, moonlight, whatever you gotta do. You can get loans from family and friends, but that's more of a headache than it's worth. If it fails, you just lost their money and also their friendship. I've seen it happen twice.
When you hire somebody they're your employee not your friend. You can be friendly, but don't ask them to come over on Sunday and watch the game with you. Makes it a lot harder when you have to fire them or warn them for doing something they shouldn't be.
Run inventory every month. Period. Some people do it every week. There's a bunch of great inventory systems that integrate with quick books that make inventory checking very very fast. (i use wasp). Put everything in the system. Everything. Your CPA will love you long time, and when you get audited (WHEN) they will be in and out very quickly.

I own a computer company. We did 280k+ (gross) this year and we're barely breaking even. We're just now finishing our second year.
If you have any big boy questions feel free to message me.

 
valorale
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posted December 25, 2012 09:26 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for valorale Click Here to Email valorale Send a private message to valorale Click to send valorale an Instant MessageVisit valorale's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Warhammer / war machines / malifaux can be fairly profitable because the players tend to be older, with incomes and will be loyal to a store that treats them well.
If its not your area I would strongly recommend building a rapport with locals in the area who do play these games. Offer them discounts / store credit to run events, they have tournament leagues like MTG has FNM.
 
caquaa
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posted December 25, 2012 10:28 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by valorale:
Warhammer / war machines / malifaux can be fairly profitable because the players tend to be older, with incomes and will be loyal to a store that treats them well.
If its not your area I would strongly recommend building a rapport with locals in the area who do play these games. Offer them discounts / store credit to run events, they have tournament leagues like MTG has FNM.

that stuff is also readily available online at less then MSRP so you have to have player bases willing to buy locally. Beyond that the game has a large initial investment, but then you don't need as much over time, so new players are where the money is. Its a difficult market and I'd avoid it unless research says that the customer base is there.

 

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