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Author Topic:   Snapcaster / Delver Banned?
OCDOD
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posted April 01, 2012 08:48 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for OCDOD Click Here to Email OCDOD Send a private message to OCDOD Click to send OCDOD an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
So I've been away from the game for a while. Now that I'm back, I'm seeing Snapcasters and Delver of Secrets in soooo many decks, regardless of format:
Block, Standard, Extended, Modern, Legacy

Before I drop $80-100 on a playset of Snapcasters, do you think there is a chance of it getting banned in the future?

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tragicmagic
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posted April 01, 2012 08:50 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for tragicmagic Click Here to Email tragicmagic Send a private message to tragicmagic Click to send tragicmagic an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View tragicmagic's Trade Auction or SaleView tragicmagic's Trade Auction or Sale
Not as long as Bloodline Keeper exists.
 
AlmostGrown
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posted April 01, 2012 09:31 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for AlmostGrown Click Here to Email AlmostGrown Send a private message to AlmostGrown Click to send AlmostGrown an Instant MessageVisit AlmostGrown's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View AlmostGrown's Have/Want ListView AlmostGrown's Have/Want List
0% chance of either of those cards getting banned.
 
B14ckM4g3
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posted April 01, 2012 11:57 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for B14ckM4g3 Click Here to Email B14ckM4g3 Send a private message to B14ckM4g3 Click to send B14ckM4g3 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Couldn't see it happening. ever. they are both good but not that good. when it comes to a point that EVERY deck in the top 8 are running psuedo-variations od the same deck with the same cards, then maybe. but zombies is amazing in standard, jund is rocking modern, and legacy is, well, legacy with a variation of a multitude of decks, then no.
 
Vegas10
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posted April 01, 2012 12:09 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Vegas10 Click Here to Email Vegas10 Send a private message to Vegas10 Click to send Vegas10 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Vegas10's Have/Want ListView Vegas10's Have/Want List
never in legacy for sure, would have said never in modern/Standard except with Wild Nacatl a 3 power one drop is considerd to powerful in modern, so it could happen to delver but still unlikley.
 
simbayu
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posted April 01, 2012 12:12 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for simbayu Send a private message to simbayu Click to send simbayu an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Not right now. Hes played a lot but the decks hes in aren't dominating the format. They are tier 1 decks but not on the level of caw blade craziness.
 
WeedIan
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posted April 01, 2012 04:48 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for WeedIan Click Here to Email WeedIan Send a private message to WeedIan Click to send WeedIan an Instant MessageVisit WeedIan's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View WeedIan's Have/Want ListView WeedIan's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Vegas10:
never in legacy for sure, would have said never in modern/Standard except with Wild Nacatl a 3 power one drop is considerd to powerful in modern, so it could happen to delver but still unlikley.

They banned Ponder and Preordain instead.

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gcowhsu
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posted April 02, 2012 01:16 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for gcowhsu Click Here to Email gcowhsu Click to send gcowhsu an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View gcowhsu's Trade Auction or SaleView gcowhsu's Trade Auction or Sale
Sad part they could have fixed the Nacatl/Preordain/Ponder problem by you know unbanning a little card called Mental Misstep.
 
coasterdude84
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posted April 02, 2012 01:27 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for coasterdude84 Click Here to Email coasterdude84 Send a private message to coasterdude84 Click to send coasterdude84 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View coasterdude84's Trade Auction or SaleView coasterdude84's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by gcowhsu:
Sad part they could have fixed the Nacatl/Preordain/Ponder problem by you know unbanning a little card called Mental Misstep.

No clearly Misstep needed to be banned. It can be used to produce infinite mana, can be a potential turn 1 or 2 kill, and can be abused to provide unfair card advantage.

Oh wait, no it can't.

I know we've been around this block before, but there is nothing broken about Misstep. Having my first turn play countered isn't any worse than when someone plays a FoW, Wastelands me, or removes a threat with a StP or Path. I know your comment was in regards to Modern, but the point is even more valid there. Why does Misstep scare Wizards so much?

Regarding Snapcaster, I doubt he'll ever get banned. He just makes graveyard removal more relevant.

 
Dolemitesooner
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posted April 02, 2012 04:38 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Dolemitesooner Click Here to Email Dolemitesooner Send a private message to Dolemitesooner Click to send Dolemitesooner an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Neither should be banned
 
Zeckk
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posted April 02, 2012 09:54 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Zeckk Click Here to Email Zeckk Send a private message to Zeckk Click to send Zeckk an Instant MessageVisit Zeckk's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Zeckk's Have/Want ListView Zeckk's Have/Want List
Too many people forget to look at potential bannings from a design standpoint. Misstep and nacatl were banned because they prevent a lot of deck ideas from ever getting off the ground. Same deal with punishing fire.

Snapcaster and delver arguably opened up more meta diversity, which is why they wont get banned. Also, add the fact that players get a full turn before delver can flip.

Misstep had the opposite Meta effect than the design team intended, making legacy even more dominated by blue than before, so it was banned as a result.

 
angelOFtorment
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posted April 03, 2012 01:12 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for angelOFtorment Click Here to Email angelOFtorment Send a private message to angelOFtorment Click to send angelOFtorment an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by OCDOD:
So I've been away from the game for a while. Now that I'm back, I'm seeing Snapcasters and Delver of Secrets in soooo many decks, regardless of format:
Block, Standard, Extended, Modern, Legacy

Before I drop $80-100 on a playset of Snapcasters, do you think there is a chance of it getting banned in the future?



i dont think so,snapcaster and deliever secret will not be banned in standard....sooner or later 1 and half month after AVACYN RESTORED was relaesed and m13 will be came out somewhere in july..if PONDER and PREORDAIN will not be REPRINTED in M13..then snapcaster will not highly valiable as it be or let us say use or even deliever secret will be useful in type 2..

 
xxxcryoserumxxx
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posted April 05, 2012 09:38 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for xxxcryoserumxxx Click Here to Email xxxcryoserumxxx Send a private message to xxxcryoserumxxx Click to send xxxcryoserumxxx an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View xxxcryoserumxxx's Have/Want ListView xxxcryoserumxxx's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by angelOFtorment:

i dont think so,snapcaster and deliever secret will not be banned in standard....sooner or later 1 and half month after AVACYN RESTORED was relaesed and m13 will be came out somewhere in july..if PONDER and PREORDAIN will not be REPRINTED in M13..then snapcaster will not highly valiable as it be or let us say use or even deliever secret will be useful in type 2..

I think snapcaster will be just as played even if ponder and preordain are not reprinted. The reason being bringing back any instant or sorcery at instant speed is just to valuable.

 
azazel70820
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posted April 05, 2012 10:03 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for azazel70820 Click Here to Email azazel70820 Send a private message to azazel70820 Click to send azazel70820 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View azazel70820's Have/Want ListView azazel70820's Have/Want List
I would look for Delver to get the axe soon.
 
Goaswerfraiejen
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posted April 05, 2012 10:14 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Goaswerfraiejen Click Here to Email Goaswerfraiejen Send a private message to Goaswerfraiejen Click to send Goaswerfraiejen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Definitely not in Legacy. Elsewhere, Iunno.

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azazel70820
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posted April 05, 2012 11:56 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for azazel70820 Click Here to Email azazel70820 Send a private message to azazel70820 Click to send azazel70820 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View azazel70820's Have/Want ListView azazel70820's Have/Want List
Thats for Type 2 only.
 
BranShan2012
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posted April 06, 2012 02:27 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for BranShan2012 Click Here to Email BranShan2012 Send a private message to BranShan2012 Click to send BranShan2012 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by azazel70820:
I would look for Delver to get the axe soon.

If it continues to dominate Standard, then I could see it possible. Let's hope the next set doesn't make the Delver decks any better.

quote:
Originally posted by Zeckk:
Too many people forget to look at potential bannings from a design standpoint. Misstep and nacatl were banned because they prevent a lot of deck ideas from ever getting off the ground. Same deal with punishing fire.

Snapcaster and delver arguably opened up more meta diversity, which is why they wont get banned. Also, add the fact that players get a full turn before delver can flip.

Misstep had the opposite Meta effect than the design team intended, making legacy even more dominated by blue than before, so it was banned as a result.


I can totally understand misstep getting the axe in Legacy, because blue was becoming too dominate, and an overwhelming number of decks (including some non-blue decks) were running a playset in their 75. However, in modern, blue isn't dominate, and there are a large variety of decks doing well in the format. I think Misstep should at least be considered getting unbanned.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by BranShan2012 on April 06, 2012]

 
rockondon
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posted April 06, 2012 07:39 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for rockondon Click Here to Email rockondon Send a private message to rockondon Click to send rockondon an Instant MessageVisit rockondon's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View rockondon's Have/Want ListView rockondon's Have/Want List
I'll cry is snapcaster gets banned. I decided to collect it, I have 10 right now and 15 more coming, and I'm hoping they will still be valuable if/when I ever decide to sell them.

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coasterdude84
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posted April 06, 2012 09:59 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for coasterdude84 Click Here to Email coasterdude84 Send a private message to coasterdude84 Click to send coasterdude84 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View coasterdude84's Trade Auction or SaleView coasterdude84's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by BranShan2012:
I can totally understand misstep getting the axe in Legacy, because blue was becoming too dominate, and an overwhelming number of decks (including some non-blue decks) were running a playset in their 75.

Misstep didn't make blue dominant; it was dominant before Misstep was even printed. Jace2.0 is far more problematic. Misstep was a fun and fair counterspell, and what made it awesome was that you could run it in a non-blue deck. In Legacy, the rule has been to ban cards that are simply too good on their own (Strip Mine) or allow you to do broken things very quickly (Hermit Druid). Misstep is neither of those things. It should not be banned simply because "blue is too good right now."

 
gcowhsu
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posted April 06, 2012 10:07 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for gcowhsu Click Here to Email gcowhsu Click to send gcowhsu an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View gcowhsu's Trade Auction or SaleView gcowhsu's Trade Auction or Sale
the whole point of mental misstep was to give other colors a counterspell.
 
Speed Demon
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posted April 06, 2012 10:25 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Speed Demon Click Here to Email Speed Demon Click to send Speed Demon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by gcowhsu:
Sad part they could have fixed the Nacatl/Preordain/Ponder problem by you know unbanning a little card called Mental Misstep.

NO.

Mental Misstep is a card that should be unprinted IMO. It was a mistake printed the card for the cost that it is. Making a free mana counterspell that counters all 1 drops completely warps the game and it's a mistake that should have never happened.

Free counterspells should have some drawback. Having to "sometimes" pay 2 life is not a draw back. Maybe if the card was G/phyrexian-mana then maybe it'd be acceptable but I really even doubt that.

I am not sure if Mental Misstep would have been fine if it just costed U.

 
coasterdude84
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posted April 06, 2012 12:32 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for coasterdude84 Click Here to Email coasterdude84 Send a private message to coasterdude84 Click to send coasterdude84 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View coasterdude84's Trade Auction or SaleView coasterdude84's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Speed Demon:
NO.

Mental Misstep is a card that should be unprinted IMO. It was a mistake printed the card for the cost that it is. Making a free mana counterspell that counters all 1 drops completely warps the game and it's a mistake that should have never happened.


How does countering 1-drops warp the game? While there isn't a direct comparison, Spell Snare counters all 2-drops without any problems, Force Spike 99% of the time stops all first turn drops (usually 1-drops), and Chalice of the Void for 2 colorless stops ALL 1-drops. None of these are broken, hell Force Spike doesn't even see play. Only a High Tide or ANT player would think it unfair.

quote:
Originally posted by Speed Demon:
Free counterspells should have some drawback. Having to "sometimes" pay 2 life is not a draw back. Maybe if the card was G/phyrexian-mana then maybe it'd be acceptable but I really even doubt that.

It's only free during the "sometimes" you pay 2 life. Otherwise, you pay a blue. Your argument here doesn't make any sense.

 
GenghisTom
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posted April 06, 2012 03:48 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for GenghisTom Click Here to Email GenghisTom Send a private message to GenghisTom Click to send GenghisTom an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I Think mental misstep was banned because it contributed to a certain degeneration of the format. Nearly 1/3 of legacy spells cost 1cmc, so it's very relevant and can be run maindeck. The drawback isn't a drawback.

And btw, force spike costs mana, chalice hits your own stuff too, and force spike just sucks

 
Sovarius
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posted April 06, 2012 10:42 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by coasterdude84:
How does countering 1-drops warp the game?

Stop Swords/path, top, vial, lot of goblins and elves, dark ritual. It's only weakness is itself.

The other cards you mentioned are too far off for comparison. Those cost mana.

 
angelOFtorment
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posted April 07, 2012 03:59 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for angelOFtorment Click Here to Email angelOFtorment Send a private message to angelOFtorment Click to send angelOFtorment an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rockondon:
I'll cry is snapcaster gets banned. I decided to collect it, I have 10 right now and 15 more coming, and I'm hoping they will still be valuable if/when I ever decide to sell them.


let us hope that WofC will not print some abusive instant and sorceries in the coming set or block to make SNACASTER MAGE COLLECTOR or USER more happier...

if WofC will print an abusive instant or sorciery in the coming set or blocked then say goodbye to snacaster mage as same fate what Jace:TMS...

lets hope and see that snap will not be axed soon.so far so good let snapcaster mage do his job in some deck like solar flare,U/W control......

[Edited 1 times, lastly by angelOFtorment on April 07, 2012]

 

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