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MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 Champion

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Originally posted by 2austin5:
Believe me, I didn't, but what do you think fair premiums are? the premium should be based on condition right?

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I wouldn't link premium with condition. The price of the card should reflect the condition of the card. Premium means "extra" on top of the value of the card.

I've had people who requested for a 20% premium in a $30 trade, because my Zendikar Fetchlands are worth less individually compare to his standard playable only planeswalker.

I've also traded a stack of standard cards for a Library of Alexandria and Mishra's Workshop at eBay prices with no premium requested.

All in all, fairness is pretty subjective.

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MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 Champion

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Originally posted by D'Shay:
if it is worth 100-105 why would you want to tack on more?
if you determined value, why is it ok to move it out 10-20%?

this "premium" word is just a myth and story to me

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
I enjoy seeing the premium argument come up at least once a week now.

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Same....one half says it doesn't exist but won't make trades like 100 one dollar cards for a 100 dollar card, and the other half gets all sorts of weird numbers and wants premiums on anything high value regardless of format use.

Then there is everyone in the middle that uses logic, and wins.

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Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
Same....one half says it doesn't exist but won't make trades like 100 one dollar cards for a 100 dollar card, and the other half gets all sorts of weird numbers and wants premiums on anything high value regardless of format use.

Then there is everyone in the middle that uses logic, and wins.

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The biggest drawback of the "internet pricing" era of magic cards is the notion that every card in existence has a set price. This is troublesome because it leads to 2 issues.

1. People become inflexible when it comes to determining an acceptable trade, which makes trading not only tedious, but unsatisfying.

2. People become reluctant to "lose out" on a perceived trade if the card price is volatile, leaving a lot of otherwise happy magic players scared of being the guy that traded hot-ticket items for some crap rares.

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
The biggest drawback of the "internet pricing" era of magic cards is the notion that every card in existence has a set price. This is troublesome because it leads to 2 issues.

1. People become inflexible when it comes to determining an acceptable trade, which makes trading not only tedious, but unsatisfying.

2. People become reluctant to "lose out" on a perceived trade if the card price is volatile, leaving a lot of otherwise happy magic players scared of being the guy that traded hot-ticket items for some crap rares.

The bottom line is that people on both ends of the "premium" argument often take it too far. MOTL itself encourages this when those asinine "pick which pile you would rather have" threads pop up, and some user's fanatic adherence to the MOTL price guide.

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Originally posted by rats60:
We all understand why you don't like price guides. You are only here to trade for profit. I'm sorry that the MOTL Price Guide is too difficult for you to learn how to use and spoils your notion that you should be able to rip every one off in every trade. You are better off trading in person. It is one thing to give a small premium like 5-20% to trade. It is guys like you who expect a 50%+ profit from every trade that ruin this place for people who want to trade for cards that they need.

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Originally posted by rats60:
We all understand why you don't like price guides. You are only here to trade for profit. I'm sorry that the MOTL Price Guide is too difficult for you to learn how to use and spoils your notion that you should be able to rip every one off in every trade. You are better off trading in person. It is one thing to give a small premium like 5-20% to trade. It is guys like you who expect a 50%+ profit from every trade that ruin this place for people who want to trade for cards that they need.

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Originally posted by Bagbokk:
Premiums aren't really a hard concept, just trade with the people that don't want a huge % on their cards.

Price guides are a good thing. I don't see those drawbacks as truly being drawbacks. Yeah, in the short term, with regard to that trade, maybe you won't get what you wanted, but people losing value in their collection leads to them having to spend more money on the game. Money they might not have. They might be happy with the trade in the short term but when they try to get rid of their current deck and build a new one they won't be so happy when they realize that they could have gotten $200 for it but now it's only worth $50 because they traded all their valuable stuff away for crap. It's really just a delayed disappointment.

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Like everything else in magic, trades require context. Are you trying to get a hold of a standard staple a week before your big tourney? Or are you just trying to chip away at your set collection?

Just as an example, take Elesh Norn. She's had a relatively bumpy price path in standard, and pretty soon she's going to be rotating out. Her price point in 2 months could be wildly different than 4 months, and her outlook a year from now could be even more different. There are definitely traders out there solely looking to "get value", but the reality is that someone might be looking to pick up elesh norn (or dump them) before the meta dictates a higher (or lower) price point.

This is where internet pricing creates issues. Chas Andres wrote an extremely good article about the buyer's remorse and the trading heuristics (http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/traderous-instinct-the-sunk-cost-fallacy/) which essentially explains that "losing" on a trade stands out in your mind a lot more than "winning" on a trade, and even if you end up with the better pile in the long-term, the sting of losing value a few weeks after the trade is complete can make you hesitant to trade in the future.

You're willing to trade your Duals? Well, don't tell me you'll only do it for a 25-50% premium! That's totally asinine, and a waste of my time and other resources.

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Originally posted by Solidarity:
I have no problem with premiums when trading up, but MTG has always been about playing a game. If you want to try and make a living by attempting to ghetto arb some trading cards , then I'm going to think that you're pathetic.

You're willing to trade your Duals? Well, don't tell me you'll only do it for a 25-50% premium! That's totally asinine, and a waste of my time and other resources.

Almost as bad as the traders who have huge Legacy / Vintage "wants," followed by a list of never-ending crap $0.25 T2 "haves."

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Originally posted by Mr.C:
I have a pile of $1 rares to trade straight across for your Legacy staples. PM me.

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i agree it is fair if i want those cards and the value's line up

$100 in stuff is the same as another $100 in stuff...

ok im done

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Originally posted by Solidarity:
I have no problem with premiums when trading up, but MTG has always been about playing a game. If you want to try and make a living by attempting to ghetto arb some trading cards , then I'm going to think that you're pathetic.

You're willing to trade your Duals? Well, don't tell me you'll only do it for a 25-50% premium! That's totally asinine, and a waste of my time and other resources.

Almost as bad as the traders who have huge Legacy / Vintage "wants," followed by a list of never-ending crap $0.25 T2 "haves."

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Originally posted by Ashnod'sPants:
Solidarity complains about premiums.
Solidarity says the people who don't honor premiums are worse.

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Except that's a gross oversimplification...

If I'm trading Zen fetches for duals, forcing me to pay a 25-50% premium is patently absurd -- I could simply sell the fetches at a huge discount and outright buy the dual!

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Originally posted by Solidarity:
Except that's a gross oversimplification...

If I'm trading Zen fetches for duals, forcing me to pay a 25-50% premium is patently absurd -- I could simply sell the fetches at a huge discount and outright buy the dual!

On the other hand, those $0.25 rares are rarely worth even $0.25 (and oftentimes, people will want to value them at $0.50 to $1.00). While the concept of a "premium" may have thrown you for a loop, if you want to trade me some bulk rares at market value ($0.10 to $0.15 per), I'll be more than glad to give you par value on duals.

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Dude, nobody is FORCING you to do anything. That's the freaking point. If you don't want to trade up for duals and offer a premium then don't trade to that person. If you can't find anyone to trade you duals at even value for your fetches, then you get to keep your fetches or sell them and buy the cards you want! Deal with it.